Nwa "how Ual Paycuts Impact Nwa"

[North by Northwest]

http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_ge.jsp...i&date=20050121 Perhaps NWA should consider these comparisons when the BOD is considering the compensation of Sen. Mang., or the pay superiority that Ual provided it's employees for years compared to NWA. Furthermore, the $1.5 Billion wasted on the '98 strike would have come in handy during these difficult times. It is estimated that NWA could have settled ALL open contracts with it's employees for under $350 million at the time, thus perserving the good will of all employees after their sacrafice of the early '90's. The hundreds of millions of dollars that Mr. Wilson and Mr. Checchi (roughly $400-$500 million EACH) reaped from their $9 million dollar LBO is still fresh in many employees minds. I must not forget to mention the enormous "BONUS" Mr. Dasburg was rewarded after the employees agreed to huge paycuts in the early '90's. Industry comparisons work BOTH ways. Additionally, many cabin crew members remember well the FOUR YEARS it took before NWA settled a contract barely bringing them up to industry pay. We all know that there are huge economic issues facing EVERY carrier in todays airline industry. But we've been here before...and NWA's track record speaks volumes about it's present need for "industry labor rates" to be brought to NWA. Actions speaks louder than words (NWA's past labor relations speaks for it's self). My only question to NWA mang. would be: from a business point of view...how many times must one be burned before leaning the lesson needed to survive? Hopefully, we at NWA, can create a culture change that will allow us to fully trust each other and make the needed changes that will secure our futures long term. It would serve ALL major (what a dumb reference word "legacy") carriers well not just to pass the buck to (labor pay cuts) employees. Airline management MUST be held accountable for THEIR performance. Why is SW the ONLY carrier with a clearly successful FUEL HEDGING program? Fuel IS the largest cost in the grand scheme of things is it not? SW's current profitability is directly tied to their hugely efficient fuel hedging program...NOT their LCC labor costs. The money spent on demanding paycuts from labor could very well be spent on developing an effective fuel hedging program. Airline sen. management has ALWAYS governed and paid for poor management performance from the pockets of labor.

 

[Bigsky]

It's all about money. Being that UAL is NWA's main competitor, NWA management will continue to compare our labor costs against United. That is unfortunate because UAL's labor costs are significantly lower than at NWA. We will eventually have to follow United to some degree in the race to the bottom, a race in which UAL is the clear winner among the legacies and even most LCCs.

UAL management, still with little direction, continues it's relentless cost saving initiatives which ends with asking labor for more cuts and then continues with some bizarre new idea like 'pets earning frequent flyer miles'.

Maybe someone could please enlighten me on why the pilots signed a contract that has to be one of the worst in aviation history and is not ammendable until 2009. Why not make it ammendable in two years?

Except for Fido whose been racking up the frequent flyer miles, I think everyone else at the legacies is in trouble with UAL leading the way to low pay jobs for us all . Time for a change of course UAL guys and gals.

cheers

bigsky

 

[laura62]

UAL management, still with little direction, continues it's relentless cost saving initiatives which ends with asking labor for more cuts and then continues with some bizarre new idea like 'pets earning frequent flyer miles'.

The people who "pay" to have thier animals shipped earn frequent flier miles. What's so bizaare about that? I get frequent flier miles for grocery shopping, using my telephone, ordering flowers....

Maybe someone could please enlighten me on why the pilots signed a contract that has to be one of the worst in aviation history and is not ammendable until 2009. Why not make it ammendable in two years?

Your statement about they "signed a contract" is incorrect. It is going to a vote now and hasn't been decided. Do you really think UAL pilots wanted to keep a lousy contract until 2009?

I think everyone else at the legacies is in trouble with UAL leading the way to low pay jobs for us all . Time for a change of course UAL guys and gals.

NWA has had it's own debacles-the 1998 strike being one of them.
And how about NWA always being "the spoiler" when other "legacy carriers tried/try to raise ticket prices to sane levels?

There are very few who have room to talk in this industry. And NWA isn't one of them.

 

[Dave]

Each and every time UAL or any other legacy carrier has attempted to increase revenue by increasing fares, there has been one carrier who wouldn't match.

Wanna guess who it is?

 

[Bizman]

Each and every time UAL or any other legacy carrier has attempted to increase revenue by increasing fares, there has been one carrier who wouldn't match.

Wanna guess who it is?

[post="241041"][/post]​

I think we all know who it is.............you know the old saying,What goes around come around

 

[AA-MCI]

I think we all know who it is.............you know the old saying,What goes around come around

[post="241187"][/post]​

So NWA management does to you occasionally what it does to NWA employees frequently and you gloat? Nice.

News flash: the reason NWA management doesn't follow price increases is the same reason they're moving capacity into markets where it can hurt the bankrupt carriers the most - they want to kill USAirways and UAL. Management makes that decision, not the employees.

I've seen many NWA people here saying they want nothing but the best for those who work at bankrupt carriers, but judging by the comments here that's a one-way sentiment.

 

[Dave]

News flash: the reason NWA management doesn't follow price increases is the same reason they're moving capacity into markets where it can hurt the bankrupt carriers the most - they want to kill USAirways and UAL. Management makes that decision, not the employees.

But the employees do make the decision to take pay cuts, thereby subsidizing management's attempt to kill off the bankrupt carriers. The result? Payscales continue to go down and the bankrupt carriers are still here.

Perhaps it's time for the employees to say no to more concessions and yes to management following fare increases and fuel surcharges.

The paycheck you save may be your own.

 

[North by Northwest]

"There are very few who have room to talk in this industry. And NWA isn't one of them." How wrong you are. NWA and AMR are the ONLY ones of the majors that can talk. This thread is about paycuts...not about Ual employees having the gall to remotely critique the operational shortcomings of NWA. When one is in bankruptcy and MUST, by ANY means possible, accumulate cash ...they are NOT the ones that should be followed when it comes to pricing. Their pricing technique is simple...do what ever you can to get cash...no matter how many cheap tix you flood the market with. I can promise you one thing...NWA folks will NOT be walking down the same path as the sinking ship of Ual. That you can take to the bank. Ual will be long gone before concessions are settled across the board at NWA. We still have $5- $6 Billion to lose before we end up like ual's buring house.

 

[Whadayano]

North by Northwest, your history should go back a bit farther. Remember B Scales? Created by Bob Crandall and the pilots at AMR in return for ordering 250 (eventually) MD-80's? Which management helped kill em? The same Mr. Chechi you rage about. He was in NWA as a financial engineering play, not a long term running an airline for future generations. He was probably already then thinking about running for Governor of CA, (as an aside he pissed away $40mm and didn't come close to getting the nomination). So he wasn't too worried about long term costs. He let the NWA pilots get rid of B scales, reducing what was a permanent lower wage cost to I think a 5-6 year merge. And that was the beginning of the end of B scale, as other pilot groups leap-frogged. So Chechi did you a big faivor. But the guys who were managing airlines for the long term saw it as a turning point--Crandall said to people that it was a turning point, that the managements couldn't run the airlines because the pilots did. And then the pilots took over UAL, management was their plaything, and we all know how it turned to dross. This isn't to trash any one, everyone was acting in their own interest (although short term). But that's the history. Chechi and friends bailed with millions, after starting the train down the tracks without the brakes on.

 

[NWA/AMT]

News flash: the reason NWA management doesn't follow price increases is the same reason they're moving capacity into markets where it can hurt the bankrupt carriers the most - they want to kill USAirways and UAL. Management makes that decision, not the employees.

[post="241244"][/post]​

In my years with NWA, I have yet to have management ask my opinion about a fare increase. However, I have had employees from other airlines blame me personally for those decisions on several occasions nonetheless.

 

[NWA/AMT]

But the employees do make the decision to take pay cuts, thereby subsidizing management's attempt to kill off the bankrupt carriers.  The result?  Payscales continue to go down and the bankrupt carriers are still here.

[post="241442"][/post]​

The employees at NWA have resisted concessions to this point, long after our peers at the bankrupt carriers, and many at carriers not in bankruptcy, have taken them. Now, as our contracts are becoming amendable, we are faced with the lowered standards in the industry as we begin negotiations, certainly not an optimum bargaining position. In the end we will be faced with the choice of concessions that we negotiate, no doubt patterned on the other carriers, or what would be undoubtedly worse: concessions imposed by a Presidential Emergency Board, and Congress, when released by the NMB - because with the current administration we certainly will not be allowed to strike to maintain our standard of living. Even if we are able to hold the line at the bargaining table, and avoid having a contract imposed by the government, NWA will still have the option to achieve their goals through bankruptcy if necessary. Do you still think that "the employees do make the decision to take pay cuts"?

Perhaps it's time for the employees to say no to more concessions and yes to management following fare increases and fuel surcharges.

What on earth gives people the idea that NWA management cares in the least about the employees opinions regarding any issue, let alone fare increases and fuel surcharges? They have quite clearly demonstrated just the opposite, over and over. Considering that just about every union at NWA has gone on the record, in the media, as opposing NWA's pricing actions, I don't really know what other actions you expect us to take.

The paycheck you save may be your own.

Any concessions we give at NWA will be used by NWA to put even more pressure on the bankrupt carriers, and will no doubt be used to justify further demands for more concessions there, either directly or indirectly, so it's not just our paychecks you're expecting us to save, is it?

 

[Bigsky]

With UAL, the world's largest LCC or LPC (low pay carrier), paving the way to pre World War II pay levels, NWA mgmt. will continue to pressure it's unions to follow suit. At least the mechanics at UAL said enough is enough....labor is not the problem, Tilton is.


bigsky