OT Why Work It?

[Bob Owens]

Are you people flipping kidding me? I see it everyday!!! You are complaining about working overtime at the easiest job you have or will ever have. the majority of you sit on your laptops most of the day and are actually go work on an aircraft for 2-3 hours. Some of you run your own businesses while on AA's time clock!!! If you had to or you ever worked in the real world of aviation you would know what real work is like!!! Take a look around you and see what other airline mechanics are doing that are non unionized and talk too them if you have the guts!!! I have been there and slaving away for a 20 hr or more shift is something most of you couldnt do. If the public knew qhat goes on there at "the best airline" in the world (VOMIT) they would be furious at the way you act!!!! Go ahead stop working the OT, why should you guys make $100, 000 plus a year to do nothing? I cannot believe the immaturity that goes on there. Why dont we ask the real world how they feel about what overtime means? Especially all those people that dont have a job and all those soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines fighting overseas, do you think they are getting overtime? Why dont you ask their families standing on the ramp as there coffin is being unloaded from a cargo bin. So cry babies cry I hope you get some satisfaction and sleep really well at night , oh and I hope AA lasts forever so you can do what you do best, afterall we are AMERICANS right supposedly the best of the best.....TOO BAD FOR US if you are our kids role models. AA did screw up, I will admit, they should have declared bankruptcy and disolved our precious contracts completely then maybe the airline would be doing better and you know what.......who am I kidding, most of you are hopeless whiny brats. I am glad too say not all of us are like this but the majority is and make us all look like....well you know what.

Hmm, either someone who hates what he sees in the mirror or a fraud.

Easiest job you will ever have? Most could not do what we do.
Ever worked a real job, most of us work two. So yea we know what its like to work 20hr days.

Do you think those soldiers are fighting so when they come back, if they come back, they will need to work two jobs so those at the top can take more than they need?

 

[Goey]

Ok now the fire is lit I see that this idea made it on to the neqotiations topic. Now first off let's let the bean counters count all the AOI requests for the do not call list. This would do nothing to harm anyones OT but it would show them we are motivated and cause them to plan ahead for 6th day. Imagine that they may have to learn how to manage. And here is another question what if no OT was worked the week right before the next negotiation session? Would be motivating don't ya think. Come on cornerstone city's let's get rolling otherwise we won't have a contract till 2012.

 

[767 mechanic]

It does take more manning to man a 4-10 shift. Any 4-10 shift out there you can cut heads, go back to 5-8's and have more heads working. It's basic math.

Basic math? How can you do away with a 4-10 shift and add heads and come out ahead? By adding heads you are adding to labor hours,not to mention the cost of benefits. Have you ever heard the phrase 3 men --- 3 days --- 3 holes. I guess not !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Goey]

Just to clarify the mention of the CS policy was just to point out that it may be one of the threats that management may use against us. I personally have nothing against the policy or those who utilize it, it clearly benefits both the company and the workforce. But as I would hope you all know this policy is not contractual and can be modified or cancelled at any time by management.
But enough about that. Let's all start a chant "AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call"!!!
Now that did'nt hurt did it, let's show the F/A's they are not the only ones with Skivvies of Steel.

 

[Bob Owens]

Just to clarify the mention of the CS policy was just to point out that it may be one of the threats that management may use against us. I personally have nothing against the policy or those who utilize it, it clearly benefits both the company and the workforce. But as I would hope you all know this policy is not contractual and can be modified or cancelled at any time by management.
But enough about that. Let's all start a chant "AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call","AOI Do Not Call"!!!
Now that did'nt hurt did it, let's show the F/A's they are not the only ones with Skivvies of Steel.

We put language in our proposal for a contractual CS policy, based upon the language in Continentals agreement. In their arrogance they not only struck out it in their counter but neglected to mention any reason why which is customary in negotiations. When asked "why" they simply pretty much said "because we like it the way it is".

 

[Bob Owens]

When I worked at DFW, I knew at least a few hundred guys who were paying in excess of $500 a month in child support. There's no way these guys would refuse OT or CS's even if they wanted to. At my current station we have guys who work 40-50 days in a row due to all the PT'ers who all have second jobs and give away their AA shifts. Their AA job is for benefits only. I made over 65K last year working the ramp in a very small station in part due to guys who cs's off all the time.

Thats how the company helps keep wages low. If we ever decided to enforce the contract and prohibit working more than 40hrs at straight time rates most of the part timers would have to quit-because they would not be able to get FTs to work for them at straight time rates, and the company would have to pay more OT or hire more Full Timers who are usually more willing to fight to improve the wages.

In maintenance some are just keeping their foot in the door, working PT hours and CS'ing away as many hours as they can get away with and would have to make the choice between their other job and AA without the ability to CS. Some work two full time jobs and CS makes that possible, since they can survive this way they may not be as willing to fight, eliminate that option and they would have no choice but to fight.So even though we dont officially have any part timers in maintenance the reality is have many that are working PT hours, once again, saving the company money through reduced sick time and less OT.

Since the contract does not recognize CS's we could grieve a breach of contract by allowing guys to work more than 40 at straight time rates. Over 40 is OT, except for training(maintenance). If the contract recognized that workers could work more than 40 at straight time rates, such as the CS language that the company rejected, then the union would have no arguement. Despite that, we felt that a defined policy would be better because both sides benifit from workers being able to CS, but if it becomes a weapon then we will have to do what we have to do.

 

[strikeforce]

Thats how the company helps keep wages low. If we ever decided to enforce the contract and prohibit working more than 40hrs at straight time rates most of the part timers would have to quit-because they would not be able to get FTs to work for them at straight time rates, and the company would have to pay more OT or hire more Full Timers who are usually more willing to fight to improve the wages.

In maintenance some are just keeping their foot in the door, working PT hours and CS'ing away as many hours as they can get away with and would have to make the choice between their other job and AA without the ability to CS. Some work two full time jobs and CS makes that possible, since they can survive this way they may not be as willing to fight, eliminate that option and they would have no choice but to fight.So even though we dont officially have any part timers in maintenance the reality is have many that are working PT hours, once again, saving the company money through reduced sick time and less OT.

Since the contract does not recognize CS's we could grieve a breach of contract by allowing guys to work more than 40 at straight time rates. Over 40 is OT, except for training(maintenance). If the contract recognized that workers could work more than 40 at straight time rates, such as the CS language that the company rejected, then the union would have no arguement. Despite that, we felt that a defined policy would be better because both sides benifit from workers being able to CS, but if it becomes a weapon then we will have to do what we have to do.

Bob, since you recognize that CS's have allowed workers to 40+ hrs, why hasn't the union filed a 29D grievance? Isn't it the job of the local presidents, if not the Int'l, to protect our 40 hour workweek.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, since you recognize that CS's have allowed workers to 40+ hrs, why hasn't the union filed a 29D grievance? Isn't it the job of the local presidents, if not the Int'l, to protect our 40 hour workweek.

Because at this point in time it would do more harm to my members than good. Instead I do like management did for 50 years on sleeping, dont acknowledge it even though it obviously goes on. Instead I tried to get CS language in the contract which would make it legal and give our members some protections. When we proposed it they acted very upset, claiming that it had never come up before, as if we blindsided them, despite the fact that they have been doing that to the union all along. I explained that the Continental Agreement which was signed after our TA had it and members had asked why we didnt have such rules. I honestly felt it was a win-win for everyone. When they gave us their counter proposal this past week they simply omitted it, and in a disrespectful change of protocol they didnt even point out that they removed it or why. They basically said FU to us on contractual CS rules, or at least thats how I took it.

 

[eolesen]

I doubt you'll ever win the argument for overtime, Bob. FLSA has an exception in it for airline workers specifically to support CS (AA isn't the only company that has it....). The moment you start trying to force overtime for CS, or make it anything more than a cost zero proposition, it's over. The only real beneficiary are the employees. It gives them flexibility. The company doesn't care who shows up for a shift as long as it is covered. But they also have no qualms about requiring an employee to work the shift they bid (or had assigned to them). That's how it works in the rest of the world. At best you can do a one-for-one swap...

 

[Duke787]

Turning down OT because of some poster on a thread suggested we should, is not an option. If the TWU and AA get released and after 30 days our TWU leadership decide to do a work action, then we do a work action, NOT until then. As of right now I haven't heard that the TWU is thinking about asking to be released.

For all those complaining about AA pitting OH against line, a simple solution "separate contracts" the tech guys have one, it shouldn't be that hard.

This shouldn't be news for anyone, TUL going to a 24/7 operation is NOT a strike issue for most line mechs.

 

[iluvaa]

Turning down OT because of some poster on a thread suggested we should, is not an option. If the TWU and AA get released and after 30 days our TWU leadership decide to do a work action, then we do a work action, NOT until then. As of right now I haven't heard that the TWU is thinking about asking to be released.

For all those complaining about AA pitting OH against line, a simple solution "separate contracts" the tech guys have one, it shouldn't be that hard.

This shouldn't be news for anyone, TUL going to a 24/7 operation is NOT a strike issue for most line mechs.

agree

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Turning down OT because of some poster on a thread suggested we should, is not an option. If the TWU and AA get released and after 30 days our TWU leadership decide to do a work action, then we do a work action, NOT until then. As of right now I haven't heard that the TWU is thinking about asking to be released.

For all those complaining about AA pitting OH against line, a simple solution "separate contracts" the tech guys have one, it shouldn't be that hard.

This shouldn't be news for anyone, TUL going to a 24/7 operation is NOT a strike issue for most line mechs.

Overhaul vs Line. It seems folks are falling right into AA`s divide and conquer strategy. As a heads up to the line guys, 7day coverage is already in the contract. Management,for whatever reason, chooses not to utiilize it. Since the beginning of the year we have had several "line guys" transfer in to AFW. Some are regretting that move and are desperate to get back to the line. Why? Because on an overhaul dock an AMT has work to do everyday ALL day.

 

[Duke787]

Overhaul vs Line. It seems folks are falling right into AA`s divide and conquer strategy. As a heads up to the line guys, 7day coverage is already in the contract. Management,for whatever reason, chooses not to utiilize it. Since the beginning of the year we have had several "line guys" transfer in to AFW. Some are regretting that move and are desperate to get back to the line. Why? Because on an overhaul dock an AMT has work to do everyday ALL day.

Why not have separate contracts?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Why not have separate contracts?

The "strength in numbers" argument simply won`t fly. I see the line having the perception of enriching themselves at the expense of overhaul. One can argue who is worth more until we are blue in the face. I won`t go there unless called out. The fact is we , line and overhaul, hold the same responsibility. A responsibility not only to our pax and the airworthiness of the aircraft, but to each other as proffesionals. We must band together to prevent any further disolution of our chosen proffesion.
I understand the pain our line folks feel. High cost areas, undesirable days off, undesirable shifts. I get it. I threw out the idea of compensation based on qualifications. That was met with mixed results. How does 1.00/hour for every fleet qualification sound? Engine run/taxi, LMP, fuel tank, hot bond to name a few. A cola for you guys/gals in high cost areas is absolutely warranted. When I hear stories of tolls paid in the NYC area to get to work it blows my mind. I will stand with you for that Duke. What will you stand with me for? Have you worked overhaul Duke? It`s sad but most folks, even our own, have no real idea what we do. I actually had a 757 captain, many years ago, that had ferried a jet into AFW ask what we do? I gave him the low down and he asked if it was okay to come by the next day and hang out/observe. Well of course I told him sure. I was very surprised to say the least when the next morning he showed up. Captain stayed about half the day as we started our work. He said he had no idea how much was done to these jets. I guess my point is, we do not believe most "line" guys and outside observers "get it" in regards to what we do. Feel free to PM me if you have specifics you would like to discuss.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Why do AMT's work overtime? What would happen if we all stopped?

Overtime is needed because the company has a need for it. The operation would suffer without it. We all need the money and the company knows that and from what i hear and see we eat our own for the overtime. The philosophy of witholding labor is a temporary measure to achieve a goal. Once the goal is reached the overtime would still be there as the need does not go away. But we as a group a very short sighted and selfish to offer any sacrifice of our own to achieve any goals. There is no guarentee on anything but we feed into the machine that destroys us in the long term. Our short term gains are only temporary and once the carrot is gone then we complain about the failures. With that said, apply this same philosophy when the company counter offers with their proposal concerning our contract. Beware of short term gains and long term failures.

Just my thoughts