OT Why Work It?

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

If none of us signed the OT list they would simply force OT on the junior guy with the least hours. So instead of people working OT that want to the company simply forces people to work OT. You may turn it down but they will get the OT they need by forcing people to work. As far as 6th and 7th days no such thing here in LGA. They have to run the ECI andhold over before they call in 6th day and it never happens.

For example Joe Blow has to get home to pick up his kids so he never signs the ot list. I turn it down and now they force Joe Blow to work. Because I refuse they wind up forcing someone else who more than likely doesnt want to work OT so does it really do any harm to the Company??

 

[Hopeful]

If none of us signed the OT list they would simply force OT on the junior guy with the least hours. So instead of people working OT that want to the company simply forces people to work OT. You may turn it down but they will get the OT they need by forcing people to work. As far as 6th and 7th days no such thing here in LGA. They have to run the ECI andhold over before they call in 6th day and it never happens.

For example Joe Blow has to get home to pick up his kids so he never signs the ot list. I turn it down and now they force Joe Blow to work. Because I refuse they wind up forcing someone else who more than likely doesnt want to work OT so does it really do any harm to the Company??

They can force you to stay. But they cannot force HOW you work. If you generate 4 -5 pages of non routines by the time your OT is finished.......well you know the rest!

 

[strikeforce]

The "strength in numbers" argument simply won`t fly. I see the line having the perception of enriching themselves at the expense of overhaul. One can argue who is worth more until we are blue in the face. I won`t go there unless called out. The fact is we , line and overhaul, hold the same responsibility. A responsibility not only to our pax and the airworthiness of the aircraft, but to each other as proffesionals. We must band together to prevent any further disolution of our chosen proffesion.
I understand the pain our line folks feel. High cost areas, undesirable days off, undesirable shifts. I get it. I threw out the idea of compensation based on qualifications. That was met with mixed results. How does 1.00/hour for every fleet qualification sound? Engine run/taxi, LMP, fuel tank, hot bond to name a few. A cola for you guys/gals in high cost areas is absolutely warranted. When I hear stories of tolls paid in the NYC area to get to work it blows my mind. I will stand with you for that Duke. What will you stand with me for? Have you worked overhaul Duke? It`s sad but most folks, even our own, have no real idea what we do. I actually had a 757 captain, many years ago, that had ferried a jet into AFW ask what we do? I gave him the low down and he asked if it was okay to come by the next day and hang out/observe. Well of course I told him sure. I was very surprised to say the least when the next morning he showed up. Captain stayed about half the day as we started our work. He said he had no idea how much was done to these jets. I guess my point is, we do not believe most "line" guys and outside observers "get it" in regards to what we do. Feel free to PM me if you have specifics you would like to discuss.

The rift between line & OH has been created and allowed to fester by the union. Line & OH provide AA with totally different products and values. OH is production, and the line guys are firemen. The union has never sold the products to AA and specified their value to the operation. That's why OH, at home, and abroad is on the cheap for companies like UPS & SWA, and Line mechanics make $45-50 per hour because it's pretty obvious that line is a necessity to these airlines, and OH is not. Therefore, the value the line mechanics provide SWA pays accordingly. At AA, OH, LINE, AUTO, PLANT, & Facilities are paid the same, but in reality OH is overpaid, and line is underpaid, and perhaps the other mechanics are underpaid as well. That's because the TWU believes a mechanic is a mechanic and it doesn't matter what value you provide the company. Let's use our pilots as an example. A long time ago pilots were able to negotiate different pay rates for capt's & fo's that matched gross weight of the a/c. If you apply the thought process of the TWU, all capt's would be making the same pay rates..i.e 747 & ATR. This is the simple reason why we need professional negotiators. These are people trained on selling value. That's why we need AMP!

 

[eolesen]

I actually agree with everything in that last post. The contract makes everyone a commodity without differentiation, and winds up devaluing everyone at the same time...

APFA has separate contract language for domestic vs. international. You mentioned the differentiation for pilots. And with the TWU at Eagle, there is separate language for how hubs are dealt with versus outstations.

IIRC, all of the above are one contract with supplements. I'd say M&E is different enough to justify two contracts held by two locals, lodges, super-locals, whatever...

Lots of precedence, yet apparently very little will to address it.

If you were to separate the two into separate contracts while ensuring that seniority remains portable between the two, I'd think that the majority of the union infighting would go away overnight. No more pitting the line against OH to find stuff that one values and the other could care less about...

 

[Goey]

Alright glad to see this topic back on top, just in time for next weeks negotiation session.

Now back to some issues that were raised. My reply to you Mr. Duke787 I am not just some poster on this board I have a direct vested interest, I am not management I am a Line AMT. I have 25+ years at AA, I have worked the Line and OH, I have seen the direct result of bean counters involvement in A/C maint. I worked OH in OAK for Aircal (yes I'm a "10")we performed a lease return OH on a 737-200 owned by Aloha, during that OH we replaced 3 belly skins, 2 keel beams (corrosion) and when removing the forward galley found excessive corrosion at the upper skin crown seam. When Aloha was approached to help pay for the excessive repairs (Aircal already had exceeded there portion of costs) Aloha responded with button it up we'll take care of it later. And what was the result a convertible 737 which was luckily held together with 2 new keel beams and 3 new belly skins, otherwise all souls would have been lost. I also was sent to T-Town for a meeting the day after the Alaska Airline MD-80 tail jack screw crash. I showed up for that meeting with Culhane and the other talking heads proudly wearing my AMFA shirt, some of you on the MD-80 dock may recall seeing me that day. Now the results of our tail jack screw inspections showed that our OH and maint. program was outstanding and we only found 2 possible tail jack screws that needed to be replaced 1 was a ex Reno Air MD-90. Fast forward to Danny's No-Check program which has decimated our fleet reliability and put all our jobs in jeopardy.

I also authored and distributed a petition in the early 90's which brought attention to the bylaw change for separate contracts, negotiations and locals, these all came to pass. If I recall Mr. Shalk was one of my contacts in JFK for that petition. I received approximately 5000 signatures in reply, I also received personal phone calls from both of the Kozaitek brothers telling me to cease and desist, I replied accordingly, #### off. I also was in ORD for Mr. Littles dog and pony show during negotiations mid 90's and the vote for separate locals, I asked questions of Mr. Little like why don't we have professional negotiators, plus ten more that made him uncomfortable. He proceeded to tell me I did not belong at this meeting since I was from SFO, I was in ORD for training and staying at this hotel in ORD where the meeting was held. When I showed up at the second meeting asking the same questions Mr. Little and one of his thugs directly threatened me after the meeting (yes I have a witness).

Now back to the issues at hand the TWU will not now or when we are released ever tell any of us to perform a job action nor do I have any faith that we as group could work together for the greater good(but I have hope). Now as to the question of separating Line and OH interesting but please read the previous posts the company loves our infighting. Also if this ever happened there may be short term gains but later down the road they would work us against each other again. And please excuse me me if I find it hard to believe that the TWU would do anything to upset there cash cow, they are a corporation only interested in collecting our dues and do not care how much we make as long as they have more dues payers. More money for us may result in less dues payers for the TWU. I also have reservations about AMP with no track record and all, but if they could get us what we need then I'm ok with that, they get my support.

As to the question of OT why work it. A little of my personal issues in 2005 I filed bankruptcy in 2006 my house was foreclosed on, in 2006 I got divorced and pay $1300 a month child support 2 children, $1000 a month spousal support and 35% of gross OT. So as you can see I do need OT. So what I am asking is why not put in an AOI to be put on the Do Not Call list and also just boycott OT for a short period like NEXT WEEK when our negotiators are meeting with the company. By the way to be most effective the cornerstone city's and T-Town would send the clearest message for this exercise.

I apologize for the rambling dissertation and the me, me, me references, but I do like to talk and stir the pot. I have NEVER VOTED YES for any contract in 25+ years.

 

[Birdman]

Goey, I can assure you in Tulsa there is no unity, even down to an individual crew as I've proposed many times to refuse o.t. to send a message. We know unity works, as I'm sure you recall how discombobulated the compAAny/union was during the AMFA drive, but those days are gone.

 

[paul1]

Overhaul vs Line. It seems folks are falling right into AA`s divide and conquer strategy. As a heads up to the line guys, 7day coverage is already in the contract. Management,for whatever reason, chooses not to utiilize it. Since the beginning of the year we have had several "line guys" transfer in to AFW. Some are regretting that move and are desperate to get back to the line. Why? Because on an overhaul dock an AMT has work to do everyday ALL day.

ALL DAY EVERYDAY I worked in tulsa also


separate contract and keep senoirity between the two groups, and get use to working 24/7, if not sell the dam place already

 

[Duke787]

Let's start by saying that OH does outstanding work, nobody said anything different. OH doesn't work a 24/7 operation, only 1/7th work weekends and I doubt anybody works holidays. The reality of today's market separates line from OH, SWA mech $45 UPS $50, both without OH. I would take either contract whatever the work rules are. That is not a slight to AA OH, I just think line is being held back by OH.

Regardless of separation of line and OH contract, I will not be apart of any OT boycott unless the TWU leadership sanctions such action, I think that by doing illegal work actions you are not helping our negotiators.

 

[comatose]

Let's start by saying that OH does outstanding work, nobody said anything different. OH doesn't work a 24/7 operation, only 1/7th work weekends and I doubt anybody works holidays. The reality of today's market separates line from OH, SWA mech $45 UPS $50, both without OH. I would take either contract whatever the work rules are. That is not a slight to AA OH, I just think line is being held back by OH.

Regardless of separation of line and OH contract, I will not be apart of any OT boycott unless the TWU leadership sanctions such action, I think that by doing illegal work actions you are not helping our negotiators.

Seems to me you were one of many willing to throat the trash TA we voted down.

 

[paul1]

Seems to me you were one of many willing to throat the trash TA we voted down.

I just cann't wait for another 2-3 years to vote on the same b.s. all over again. next week article 12, then what next month article 12 its like #### ground hog day

 

[Goey]

Mr. Duke787 it seems to me that you may be one of the management personnel trying to cause division. I to believe the line needs more premiums including a COLA and I to believe the company would like to make OH more economical, but I just like you am unwilling to sacrifice pay for anything like so called job protection or for mon. thru fri. OH, ect... There are clear differences on how we all would like this resolved.
But to be clear refusing OT is your right it is not a requirement and cannot be construed as a job action, yes they could pink slip you but how long would that last. And I am not professing a long term boycott only a week here a week there. What are you all afraid of possibly upsetting the TWU or AA, they need to get the message that we are unhappy and motivated. That is unless you all are happy with the pace of negotiations meeting one week a month and settling one item every three months, maybe we'll have a contract by this time next year.

 

[strikeforce]

Seems to me you were one of many willing to throat the trash TA we voted down.

Yes, the TA was voted down primarily by the Bases, Why? Excluding the retirement givebacks, the Line would have had some structural increases, and the bases a bonus. The bases obviously didn't like the fact that Line was getting a better deal (less concessions). Unfortunately, this has been status quo for my last 20+ years with the TWU at the table. If not OH, it was FSC that benefited from M&E. There needs to be a fundemental change in valuations for the AMT. In other words, what is that AMT worth to your operation? I'm not knocking OH by any means, but Line is much more critical to the operation than OH. Therefore, Line's contribution to the operation is worth more to AA than a/c sitting in a hangar for countless days. So, let's pay Line AMT's like SWA & UPS. With TWU this will never happen without bumping OH pay up as well. This maybe why AA will never entertain $40-50 per hour pay rate.
Just one more thing...I've heard countless times that SWA and UPS pay mechanics more because they "DON"T HAVE OH"? To the contrary, they do have OH maintenance costs, but no benefit costs. They still pay the contractor a labor rate to service the plane. Where they save is on benefits, and the amount of support operation at the bases...ie Eng., Planning, Management. What they do is distribute these savings over to the critical part of there operation, Line!

 

[paul1]

goey do you work for AA? its a white slip here for forced o/t

 

[Deleted member 14439]

ALL DAY EVERYDAY I worked in tulsa also


separate contract and keep senoirity between the two groups, and get use to working 24/7, if not sell the dam place already

Paul, I can`t speak for operations in T-town since I left there in 1994. Afw on the other hand I know a little about. This is not the same old AA. Currently our contract has been basically kicked to the curb. Guys are too beat down they have very little fight left. Our dock, which used to be a single heavy or light check has morphed into 3. 140 AMTs split between 3 shifts covering 3 airplanes plus drop ins. No more labor loans, it`s just "hey you are on bay xx" today. No it is decidedly different. Gone are the days of wed night engine run and dispatch on friday. Which did mean down time for some on every other friday. Trade out jets on the weekend. 14 months of on time schedule. I personally think 7 day operations are a fine idea. This place is very under utilized. Problem is the union and company will not allow a bid system here. I can`t change your mind and don`t` disagree line needs a decent COLA nad shift differential. However, disrespecting overhaul AMTs is uncalled for.

 

[Goey]

goey do you work for AA? its a white slip here for forced o/t

Excuse my mistake and yes I do work as an AMT for AA. Most people know me by my screen name Goey. The question is do you work for AA?