OT Why Work It?

[Goey]

See Next post. Sorry for the repeat.

 

[Goey]

By the way if you had bothered to pay attention to any of my post's it would be clear to you that I work for AA as an AMT with a ####load of seniority. Do you know what a "10" is, well it is a brand to all of us who worked for AIRCAL our employee numbers begin with a "10". Please do not call into question my credibility not something you will win, I have been battling the TWU and AA much longer than you and no I'm not winning and neither are you.

 

[787nightmare]

Yes, the TA was voted down primarily by the Bases, Why? Excluding the retirement givebacks, the Line would have had some structural increases, and the bases a bonus. The bases obviously didn't like the fact that Line was getting a better deal (less concessions). Unfortunately, this has been status quo for my last 20+ years with the TWU at the table. If not OH, it was FSC that benefited from M&E. There needs to be a fundemental change in valuations for the AMT. In other words, what is that AMT worth to your operation? I'm not knocking OH by any means, but Line is much more critical to the operation than OH. Therefore, Line's contribution to the operation is worth more to AA than a/c sitting in a hangar for countless days. So, let's pay Line AMT's like SWA & UPS. With TWU this will never happen without bumping OH pay up as well. This maybe why AA will never entertain $40-50 per hour pay rate.
Just one more thing...I've heard countless times that SWA and UPS pay mechanics more because they "DON"T HAVE OH"? To the contrary, they do have OH maintenance costs, but no benefit costs. They still pay the contractor a labor rate to service the plane. Where they save is on benefits, and the amount of support operation at the bases...ie Eng., Planning, Management. What they do is distribute these savings over to the critical part of there operation, Line!

Southwest has several heavy lines in DAL, but outsources the rest. And sources virtually all of the component items/rotatables.
UPS on the hand, does zero heavy maint, and outsources everything...except line maint & B checks.

"What they do is distribute these savings over to the critical part of there operation, Line!"
Truth here...

Seperate contracts will do the trick IMO. AA will NOT pay OH the kind of money most line mechs seek. End of story.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Yes, the TA was voted down primarily by the Bases, Why? Excluding the retirement givebacks, the Line would have had some structural increases, and the bases a bonus. The bases obviously didn't like the fact that Line was getting a better deal (less concessions).
... snip

While I didn't conduct a poll of the TULE Base, I can tell you the majority of those I know voted it down because of the "Better-Than-Thou" crap our so-called "representation" allowed to be inserted into the TA.

For years, it has been a game of the more senior people hosing the younger guys. The company and their union counted on that continuing and were rather surprised when the majority told our enemies where to place their "carefully crafted" sellout agreement.

Most haven't a problem with the line getting paid for their knowledge - that was a twit local president, as we understand it.

I will not vote to take something from a co-worker so I can have it.

In the immortal words of the TV character Gregory House, MD, "You're an idiot".

 

[Duke787]

Mr. Duke787 it seems to me that you may be one of the management personnel trying to cause division. I to believe the line needs more premiums including a COLA and I to believe the company would like to make OH more economical, but I just like you am unwilling to sacrifice pay for anything like so called job protection or for mon. thru fri. OH, ect... There are clear differences on how we all would like this resolved.
But to be clear refusing OT is your right it is not a requirement and cannot be construed as a job action, yes they could pink slip you but how long would that last. And I am not professing a long term boycott only a week here a week there. What are you all afraid of possibly upsetting the TWU or AA, they need to get the message that we are unhappy and motivated. That is unless you all are happy with the pace of negotiations meeting one week a month and settling one item every three months, maybe we'll have a contract by this time next year.

I have been a Mech for over 25 years, my union loyalty is to the TWU, and if AMP represents us then my loyalty is to AMP. Just because I don't have hatred for AA or the TWU doesn't make me a member of management. It is OK to have a different opinion then most of the posters on this forum, I bet my opinion is more in tuned with the majority of employees at AA seeing how a majority of the mechs have yet to leave AA for greener pastures or the job that pays more with better benefits. I actually read a post where a guy complained that he has a hard ti e non-reving. AA doesn't make money with empty seats!!!!

It only makes sense to have separate contracts for OH and line, based on the vast differences on the TA. If OH wants sacrifice pay for schedule so be it, but don't have the line sacrifice for OH schedule. According to pitbull we all have the same responsibility so OH pay shouldn't be harmed.


Turning down OT is your right, but when you make a concerted effort to have everyone (which never happens) turn down OT, that is an illegal job action. Why would you want to deny a union member the chance to make extra money.

Helping AA avoid bankruptcy only to be taken advantage of 8 years later is a different thread subject.

 

[Birdman]

Turning down OT is your right, but when you make a concerted effort to have everyone (which never happens) turn down OT, that is an illegal job action. Why would you want to deny a union member the chance to make extra money.

I

What law makes it a crime to suggest that employees work only 40 hours a week?

 

[Goey]

Thank you Mr. Birdman good point. What is the company going to cry to the judge, we have to have our workers work OT on an ongoing basis not because of an emergency because? One, we don't know how to manage our current manpower to get the work done in a normal work week. (Then hire more AMT's and pay more to attract them) Two, we can't find any qualified AMT's and our recall's are not coming back. (then pay more for competent AMT's and attract more competency, what a concept) Or three keep pissing into the wind that seems to be working real well for you.

In order for refusing OT to be considered a job action you would have to be required to work OT as part of employment it is not, also it would have to be orchestrated by the TWU which it will never be. What are you afraid of making extra money in a raise so you would not have to work OT and possibly spending more time with your family? And I am just asking what would happen if we just made a point for a short period that would not put much of a dent in your paycheck would it?

 

[FWAAA]

Southwest has several heavy lines in DAL, but outsources the rest. And sources virtually all of the component items/rotatables.
UPS on the hand, does zero heavy maint, and outsources everything...except line maint & B checks.

"What they do is distribute these savings over to the critical part of there operation, Line!"
Truth here...

Seperate contracts will do the trick IMO. AA will NOT pay OH the kind of money most line mechs seek. End of story.

I think you're probably right; I have long doubted that AA would be willing to pay market-leading line maintenance rates for overhaul maintenance. After all, WN and UPS don't. And neither does UA/CO. I think DL overhauls some other airlines' airplanes but none (or very few) of its own.

About WN, here's what's in their 10-K:

The Company performs substantially all line maintenance on its aircraft and provides ground support services at most of the airports it serves. However, the Company has arrangements with certain aircraft maintenance firms for major component inspections and repairs for its airframes and engines, which comprise the majority of the Company's annual aircraft maintenance costs.

WN flies 548 jets and employs just 2,464 maintenance personnel (not counting management).

 

[Duke787]

Thank you Mr. Birdman good point. What is the company going to cry to the judge, we have to have our workers work OT on an ongoing basis not because of an emergency because? One, we don't know how to manage our current manpower to get the work done in a normal work week. (Then hire more AMT's and pay more to attract them) Two, we can't find any qualified AMT's and our recall's are not coming back. (then pay more for competent AMT's and attract more competency, what a concept) Or three keep pissing into the wind that seems to be working real well for you.

In order for refusing OT to be considered a job action you would have to be required to work OT as part of employment it is not, also it would have to be orchestrated by the TWU which it will never be. What are you afraid of making extra money in a raise so you would not have to work OT and possibly spending more time with your family? And I am just asking what would happen if we just made a point for a short period that would not put much of a dent in your paycheck would it?

That is actually a good point. I understand the concept, but I doubt you could actually get all the mechs to go along with you. I for one work OT very rarely.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Why work it, indeed.

The last batch I worked, I netted less than $11/hr and the Infernal Revenue Disservice took the rest. I'm off the list.

Any refusal (should it ever come to that) is an issue of refusing to work for $10-$11 dollars per hour - I could do that elsewhere with much less responsibility if that was my desire.

Screw 'em.

 

[strikeforce]

While I didn't conduct a poll of the TULE Base, I can tell you the majority of those I know voted it down because of the "Better-Than-Thou" crap our so-called "representation" allowed to be inserted into the TA.

For years, it has been a game of the more senior people hosing the younger guys. The company and their union counted on that continuing and were rather surprised when the majority told our enemies where to place their "carefully crafted" sellout agreement.

Most haven't a problem with the line getting paid for their knowledge - that was a twit local president, as we understand it.

I will not vote to take something from a co-worker so I can have it.

In the immortal words of the TV character Gregory House, MD, "You're an idiot".

It sounds like your an AMP supporter!
I won't get into name calling because I obviously have more integrity, and professionalism, and class than some of the guys on this site. That's not my style. I'm on this site to engage our mechanics into displacing an organization (TWU) that has little to no integrity, and professionalism; destroyed the craft and class of aircraft mechanic through unprecedented concessionary agreements; promotes little to no experience for new hires; has used M&E to enrichen non-licensed workers. Did I miss anything?

As far as OH and LINE, I gave my opinions and it obviously hit some nerves because the truth hurts. LINE at AA is underpaid as compared to peers at SWA, UPS, even JetBlue. OH is better off than most overhaul facilities here and abroad. But, AA must find value in keeping work in house otherwise OH would be gone. Again, AA will not pay OH mechanics $50 per hour. We will wait a very long time before that happens. Line, valid arguement in making $50 because other airlines are paying this rate. Does it mean it's going to happen, no. Could it happen, sure if OH and Line have seperate agreements. I'm Done!
YOU EITHER GRASP IT.....OR YOUR AN IDIOT! IT"S COMING MY FRIEND!

 

[Barfbag]

You say UPS make more than you but UPS mechanics work the 8 or 10 hours they are scheduled, on airplanes not watching TV's or playing/doing business on their laptops. You are not overpaid if you actually did your job!!! To be able to provide housing, food and necessary items for my families surviaval I would give whatever it takes because in the end that is what is important. My personal gain of how many boats or cars or how big my home is contributes to nothing as long as I can take care of my family and do an honest job for whatever I work for!! If I dont like it I can always quit and go work as acontractor but my choice is to stay and do my job honestly for my paycheck. That is something our fathers and their fathers did before and it worked pretty well for them. You can defend yourself anyway you think is right but reality is most people do work at jobs, not just put in time, for the money they are paid.

Yep; I'm with you buddy, plenty of LAAKies here in Fleet, who make 6 digits, and who'll sell their own mothers to do so. Then they put on their TWU Union hat and tell you to join them in the brotherhood. Only to be seen later with the FSM's kissing ARSE. So sad.

 

[Frank Szabo]

It sounds like your an AMP supporter!
I won't get into name calling because I obviously have more integrity, and professionalism, and class than some of the guys on this site. That's not my style. I'm on this site to engage our mechanics into displacing an organization (TWU) that has little to no integrity, and professionalism; destroyed the craft and class of aircraft mechanic through unprecedented concessionary agreements; promotes little to no experience for new hires; has used M&E to enrichen non-licensed workers. Did I miss anything?

As far as OH and LINE, I gave my opinions and it obviously hit some nerves because the truth hurts. LINE at AA is underpaid as compared to peers at SWA, UPS, even JetBlue. OH is better off than most overhaul facilities here and abroad. But, AA must find value in keeping work in house otherwise OH would be gone. Again, AA will not pay OH mechanics $50 per hour. We will wait a very long time before that happens. Line, valid arguement in making $50 because other airlines are paying this rate. Does it mean it's going to happen, no. Could it happen, sure if OH and Line have seperate agreements. I'm Done!
YOU EITHER GRASP IT.....OR YOUR AN IDIOT! IT"S COMING MY FRIEND!

This is one of the few times I ever got my ass chewed by someone because I agreed with them - you're still an idiot.

Perhaps re-reading the post you quote and an attempt to comprehend what I said would be of assistance to you.

 

[Goey]

Thanks Mr. Duke787 welcome to the dark side, now tell a friend. Come on Cornerstone City's JFK, DFW, ORD, MIA, LAX, show them next week you are not satisfied with the pace of negotiations, otherwise we will not have a contract until 2013. Remember AA managements bonuses are coming.

 

[paul1]

Thanks Mr. Duke787 welcome to the dark side, now tell a friend. Come on Cornerstone City's JFK, DFW, ORD, MIA, LAX, show them next week you are not satisfied with the pace of negotiations, otherwise we will not have a contract until 2013. Remember AA managements bonuses are coming.

2013 dream on. Have you not hread its article 12 next week and the month after that and the month after that. get the point 10!