Overall, PIT Traffic is Down

[FM2436]

Interesting read.

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...26/daily24.html

 

[nycbusdriver]

Interesting read.

Not really interesting.

Not at all surprising.

 

[nycbusdriver]

A VERY long time ago I heard from someone who ought to know that US and the PIT Airport folks were very close to a deal that would have allowed PIT to remain a hub but one of Bronner's press interviews killed the deal.

I was never able to verify this independantly from the source so I sat on it. Anyone else shed some light as I think PIT is one of, if not the finest airport I've ever been in and it's a shame to let it wither.

Except for the winter weather, PIT is arguably the best airport facility on the USAirways system. Or on any airline system, for that matter. Too bad for us it's not in PHL.

 

[AP Tech]

They need one of U's famous "bean counters" to calculate the extra fuel burn for the aircraft in Philly while aircraft are on circling, waiting for take off, wainting for a gate ect...meanwhile at Pit there is almost never any congestion.

Not to mention passenger convenience!!!!!

 

[hula-flyguy]

meanwhile at Pit there is almost never any congestion.

[/quote]


Or O&D traffic

 

[Travelpro72]

As for PIT not having O&D traffic, that is NOT what the airport was intended for. If the company keeps cutting what are "money making" flights, how will they show PIT as profitable? Southwest always moves into places where they can't draw traffic and there is no O&D right? After alllllll these years they picked PIT why? Because the people ARE here but were forced not to fly due to the high fares that were imposed by US. Foolish move that will not be admitted for many years to come. Why would southwest add flights in PIT if there were no passengers? My guess is that they know how to 1. Market themselves 2. Have reasonable fares and 3. Have mgmt with vision. Hopefully this will all change for US now.

 

[US1YFARE]

Why would southwest add flights in PIT if there were no passengers?

People in PHL drove 1 1/2 to 2 hours to BWI to fly WN. I suspect that PIT will get pax from OH, WV, Northwest PA, West Central PA in addition to PIT pax.

 

[Travelpro72]

Exactly. If US would have had fares set at a reasonable rate like WN does now "they' US could have drawn the same passengers. Instead US forced them to drive to CLE, CMH, CAK etc. US demanded an airport and got it. They charged sky high fares on the majority of their flights and lost O&D as people became wise to other airports and their low-fare options. Then US says there is no O&D. Again, if there was no O&D, why would WN be here? To answer, they wouldn't.

 

[autofixer]

With sky high costs at PIT, was it possible to have rationalized fares at a hub?

 

[fly with US]

Again, if there was no O&D, why would WN be here?

To continue their assualt on US...

Don't make it sound like WN was trying to do PIT a favor by "saving" it from US. Low fares are WN's business tactics, not their good deed to societ.

Concerning PIT- While I do agree that if US had lower fares, there would have been much more O&D passengers, but not enough to support a 400+ flight hub in today's industry. You can't deny that PHL is the better place to have a hub, and when US looked to increase their much needed revenue, PHL was the, and still is, the logical choice.

 

[US1YFARE]

To continue their assualt on US...

Don't make it sound like WN was trying to do PIT a favor by "saving" it from US. Low fares are WN's business tactics, not their good deed to societ.

Concerning PIT- While I do agree that if US had lower fares, there would have been much more O&D passengers, but not enough to support a 400+ flight hub in today's industry. You can't deny that PHL is the better place to have a hub, and when US looked to increase their much needed revenue, PHL was the, and still is, the logical choice.

No kidding that WN is going to the heart of US--that is one of the reasons PHL was selected previously. I don't think TP72 thinks that WN is doing anyone favors--I think many just think that WN has probably evaluated the situation and decided that PIT was a potential moneymaker for them based on its location and available O&D from the surrounding states and cities. It would make really bad business sense to go into a city just to spite US. If that was the case, WN would have gone to PIT and CLT at the same time they went into PHL and that could have been the nail in US's coffin b/c of the precarious situation US was in at that time.

And, I do agree that it makes sense to keep a hub in PHL. I will say this, that as much as US gouged us in PHL for many many many years, it was great to see them offer caribbean service out of PHL because we weren't stuck with AA and fares actually became more reasonable because US could fly us there non-stop.

 

[Travelpro72]

True PHL has a tremendous O&D base but PIT was created as a connecting airport. They have cut the flights out of PIT way beyond the necessary. Look at city pairs that we compete on with other carriers. The business IS there. We had no competition on some of the smaller cities that we pulled out of. The more you pull out the more expensive it becomes for US to operate there. Many of the flights that were cut were full, full, full on average. Many put the proximity between PIT and PHL as a reason not Hub in both. Well look at LAS and PHX for US on the west side. Pretty darn close. Not to mention there is much more traffic in the northeast for US to basically rely on PHL to filter it through. You must admit that PHL can't handle it regardless of equipment or staffing. The problems that exist today were not as prominant when PIT was still a hub. That is just plain obvious. As for southwest, true they have been biting at our ankles for years and beat us in the west and BWI. They still must have seen great business opportunity in PIT or it would be a waste of their time and money. They unlike US for years are NOT foolish. Many at US hate them but Southwest is not at fault for what has happened here. US played the victim in PIT when they were the ones who screwed up. Maybe they got to big for their own good there but cutting to the point that they have is insane. It's forcing business elsewhere.

 

[fly with US]

They have cut the flights out of PIT way beyond the necessary.

I do agree with that. US needed to cut PIT, but they could have stopped before they did.

Many put the proximity between PIT and PHL as a reason not Hub in both. Well look at LAS and PHX for US on the west side.

Ah come on, you can't compare LAS and PHX to PIT and PHL. PHL and PHX are the main connecting hubs, but LAS is, well LAS, and PIT is, well, PIT.

You must admit that PHL can't handle it regardless of equipment or staffing.

Everybody knows that, and knew it, but all the old US management saw was dollar signs.

They still must have seen great business opportunity in PIT or it would be a waste of their time and money.

With out a doubt there was, but hurting US was probably one of the main reasons WN chose PIT over other cities. PHL is another story though. Their goal was to kill US from the start. Fortunately, that never happened.

They unlike US for years are NOT foolish.

Probably the best-runned airline ever.

 

[US1YFARE]

Ah come on, you can't compare LAS and PHX to PIT and PHL. PHL and PHX are the main connecting hubs, but LAS is, well LAS, and PIT is, well, PIT.

[

That is a very interesting point. How much connecting traffic does US West see through LAS as compared to O&D and how do those statistics (on a percentage basis and raw number basis) compare to the statistics for PIT. Any information on this? Also how many gates in LAS v. PIT (before the downsize).

I don't think PHL is the main connecting hub, except for Europe. I think CLT gets that title. Which leads to my next question....

Another question, is PHX really a direct comparison to PHL--I see it more of a hybrid of PHL and CLT. Sure, PHX is the same size as PHL, may now even be larger in population, but the SURROUNDING population in PHL is probably larger. How much O&D in PHX as compared to PHL and how much connecting as compared to CLT? Also, PHX is different from PHL because WN is a major player in PHX. US is really the only game in town at PHL--there are no other choices if you want the frequency and variety of destinations.

 

[nycbusdriver]

People in PHL drove 1 1/2 to 2 hours to BWI to fly WN. I suspect that PIT will get pax from OH, WV, Northwest PA, West Central PA in addition to PIT pax.

I thought that was the purpose of WN presence in CLE, to draw these passengers away from the high PIT fares. Now PIT is going to draw the CLE passengers away from the low WN fares in CLE to the low WN fares in PIT?