PENSION CUTS Congress considers new plan to alow pension cuts

[nonrev]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-considers-plan-allow-pension-004600526.html
 
Is anything safe anymore? I will never retire the way congress is f******* us. Just venting a little, thanks    

 

[swamt]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-considers-plan-allow-pension-004600526.html
 
Is anything safe anymore? I will never retire the way congress is f******* us. Just venting a little, thanks    

 said Randy DeFrehn, executive director of a coalition of employers and labor unions that crafted the proposal the legislation is based on.
 
What unions would do this? Let me guess, the teamsters?  They do mention truckers several times thru-out it.  Let's get all groups involved in this BS exposed out in the public.  This is why everyone should run from the pension plans and do their own investing for their retirement...

 

[eolesen]

Perhaps the unions came to the realization that preserving 85% of something is still better than 100% of nothing?

The alternative is that the plans go insolvent and get dumped on the PBGC. Ask the TWA and Eastern guys how well that one worked out.

 

[MetalMover]

Perhaps the unions came to the realization that preserving 85% of something is still better than 100% of nothing?

The alternative is that the plans go insolvent and get dumped on the PBGC. Ask the TWA and Eastern guys how well that one worked out.

It seems no one's pensions are safe...except of course executives who get their payouts when they file bankruptcy. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

note that this involves MULTI-EMPLOYER pensions such as the IAM's plan.

It has no effect on single employer pensions such as AA's.

"Multiemployer pension plans cover more than 10 million workers and retirees in the trucking, manufacturing and other industries. But many of these plans have struggled in the last decade as they grapple with an aging workforce and major investment losses from the recession. Plus, many larger employers have pulled out of the plans."

 

[MetalMover]

Perhaps the unions came to the realization that preserving 85% of something is still better than 100% of nothing?

The alternative is that the plans go insolvent and get dumped on the PBGC. Ask the TWA and Eastern guys how well that one worked out.

While your at it, ask the former executives of Eastern and TWA how that worked out for THEM.

 

[eolesen]

Considering how many of the TWA executives that had to keep working in the industry, I'd say it probably didn't work out too well for them, either.

I don't think the Eastern execs did very well either. Lorenzo held the purse strings at the time.

 

[MetalMover]

Considering how many of the TWA executives that had to keep working in the industry, I'd say it probably didn't work out too well for them, either.

I don't think the Eastern execs did very well either. Lorenzo held the purse strings at the time.

How much would you be willing to bet they fared better than the employees did?

 

[eolesen]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that they fared better. And we know that the execs at the IAM and ALPA did better than their members did.

What exactly does that have to do with the unions supporting a reduction of benefits for their membership?

 

[MetalMover]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that they fared better. And we know that the execs at the IAM and ALPA did better than their members did.

What exactly does that have to do with the unions supporting a reduction of benefits for their membership?

Isn't it obvious?  The GOP controlled house of representatives with democratic support. they threw this in to once again screw the working class in this country. Especially those represented by unions. The government and companies promised benefits to workers and now claim that they can't continue to pick up the tab for much longer. This is why the executive elite get millions upon millions when they leave.....
 
Workers get screwed in bankruptcy by either having their pensions terminated and handed off to the PBGC for a sizable reduction or they get frozen.
 
BTW, which union leader walked away with $20 million in a bankruptcy? 

 

[Frank Szabo]

I'm not an authority on this but I believe the PBGC will pay a handed-off pension up to the guaranteed amount which is $45k per year. If that's really the case, few (if any) of us (the rank and file) would take a cut in pension benefits - E or fwaaa please weigh in.

 

[scorpion 2]

Unless your in a multi employer plan then its covered to around 11 to 12 grand a year. Another reason to run from the IAM plan.

 

[FWAAA]

I'm not an authority on this but I believe the PBGC will pay a handed-off pension up to the guaranteed amount which is $45k per year. If that's really the case, few (if any) of us (the rank and file) would take a cut in pension benefits - E or fwaaa please weigh in.

You are correct; generally, among airline labor groups, only pilots had a defined benefit pension checks that exceeded the PBGC guaranteed amount. Because AA froze the pensions (not terminated them) thanks to the PBGC push-back, the AA pilots will receive their full frozen monthly checks, which will be substantially larger than the US, UA or DL pilots, all of whom had their pensions terminated and handed to the PBGC.

In effect, "saving the pensions" will end up costing every AA employee (even the pilots) lots of money in lower wages/benefits so that AA can continue to fund the frozen pensions, which require substantial cash infusions. One would hope that pilots are willing to pick up the dinner tab frequently as a small token of their appreciation for the continued sacrifices of their colleagues to fund pilot pensions.  
 

Unless your in a multi employer plan then its covered to around 11 to 12 grand a year. Another reason to run from the IAM plan.

Also correct - don't know the exact limit, but you're right, it is much lower than the single-employer guaranteed amount. I assume the IAM is looking at the TWU-represented employees the way some people view their sickly, dying rich uncles (can't wait to get their hands on the cash).

 

[Real tired]

You are correct; generally, among airline labor groups, only pilots had a defined benefit pension checks that exceeded the PBGC guaranteed amount. Because AA froze the pensions (not terminated them) thanks to the PBGC push-back, the AA pilots will receive their full frozen monthly checks, which will be substantially larger than the US, UA or DL pilots, all of whom had their pensions terminated and handed to the PBGC.

In effect, "saving the pensions" will end up costing every AA employee (even the pilots) lots of money in lower wages/benefits so that AA can continue to fund the frozen pensions, which require substantial cash infusions. One would hope that pilots are willing to pick up the dinner tab frequently as a small token of their appreciation for the continued sacrifices of their colleagues to fund pilot pensions.  
 

Also correct - don't know the exact limit, but you're right, it is much lower than the single-employer guaranteed amount. I assume the IAM is looking at the TWU-represented employees the way some people view their sickly, dying rich uncles (can't wait to get their hands on the cash).

 
If the IAMNPF defaults to the PBGC, you won't like it.
 
Here's a cut and paste from the Summary Plan Description:
 

Under the multiemployer plan program, the PBGC
provides financial assistance through loans to plans
that are insolvent. A multiemployer plan is considered
insolvent if the plan is unable to pay benefits (at least
equal to the PBGC’s guaranteed benefit limit) when due.
The maximum benefit that the PBGC guarantees is
set by law. Under the multiemployer program, the
PBGC guarantee equals a participant’s years of service
multiplied by (1) 100% of the first $11 of the monthly
benefit accrual and (2) 75% of the next $33. The PBGC’s
maximum guarantee limit is $35.75 per month times a
participant’s years of service. For example, the maximum
annual guarantee for a retiree with 30 years of service
is $12,870.
 

The PBGC guarantee generally covers: (1) normal and
early retirement benefits; (2) disability benefits if you
become disabled before the plan becomes insolvent; and
(3) certain benefits for your survivors.
 

The PBGC guarantee generally does not cover: (1)
benefits greater than the maximum guaranteed amount
set by law; (2) benefit increases and new benefits based
on plan provisions that have been in place for fewer than
five (5) years at the earlier of the date the plan terminates
or the time the plan becomes insolvent; (3) benefits
that are not vested because you have not worked long
enough; (4) benefits for which you have not met all the
requirements at the time the plan becomes insolvent;
and (5) non-pension benefits, such as health insurance,
life insurance, certain death benefits, vacation pay, and
severance pay.

 

[Phoenix]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-considers-plan-allow-pension-004600526.html
 
Is anything safe anymore? I will never retire the way congress is f******* us. Just venting a little, thanks    

 
 
When they eventually cut pensions for the now retired military veterans, the fat lady will have officially sung her last note. 
 
Representatives are selected form among us and paid more than us in order to solve the problem of getting all of us a better future.. but the problem is that the elected suddenly realize they ARE making more (because they are no longer us), and if they solved the problems for us it would eliminate the need for their privileged position.  
 
Cheer up.  It will get worse.