Pensions

[TWU informer]

If you're requesting equal retirement (same as the pilots get), why stop there? Why not demand equal pay? Topped out 777 captain gets a little more than $200k per year, so that would equal about $100/hr for mechanics (unless you want the same $205/hr for all 2,080 of your hours). Fair enough?

We will just call you and eoleson the "Twist Twins" from the same Mother.

I am not requesting equal pay with the Pilots.

Just an 11% Non-Qualifying B-Plan would be fine.

 

[eolesen]

what is your interest and focus

Once the pension is handed over to the PBGC, I have no more financial interest in AA's survival. I've earned close to a million AAdvantage miles in the past five years, but those don't matter to me -- I'm sure AAdvantage would be sold in a liquidation, and points tend to survive merging better than seniority...

But, unlike you, I earned the right to post here by working there for 17 years.

I continue to earn the right by voting with my wallet. All of my flying this year has been on AA, including two trips (one to LHR, one to DFW) over the next 10 days, and a third one being firmed up for a month from now.

What's your interest? The plight of the working man, or protecting future dues should a merger happen between AA and US? With the showing of interest is now required to be at 50%+1 for a representation vote, sounds to me like CWA may be in jeopardy. Better drum up more support for it while you can.

 

[limit]

Per the TWU , their pensions are 85% funded.
Am I the only one that thinks that this demonstrates that the plan ( TWU pensions only) are very healthy?
Especially if you take into account the turmoil in the markets the last few years and the fact that
AA was allowed to contribute much less than before for a quite a few years now.
I am almost ready to claim a "Bob" here, and say that the 5.5% on the 401K will cost them more.

 

[Buck]

Per the TWU , their pensions are 85% funded.
Am I the only one that thinks that this demonstrates that the plan ( TWU pensions only) are very healthy?
Especially if you take into account the turmoil in the markets the last few years and the fact that
AA was allowed to contribute much less than before for a quite a few years now.
I am almost ready to claim a "Bob" here, and say that the 5.5% on the 401K will cost them more.

If the 85% healthy pension is there, then those at AFW should be given the $12,500 in the least.

 

[TulsaTurd]

If the 85% healthy pension is there, then those at AFW should be given the $12,500 in the least.

Your 12.5 protection (loyalty payment) has not a darn thing to do with pensions, kiss it GOODBYE, that will be the judges first pen stroke !

 

[Buck]

Your 12.5 protection (loyalty payment) has not a darn thing to do with pensions, kiss it GOODBYE, that will be the judges first pen stroke !

I am not sure what you mean as a loyalty payment.

My association between the 12.5 and pensions is that I believe those needing moving expense should have some help.

The judge does not care about the 12,5 or the $75000, all the judge is looking for is an agreement between the parties before he will implement whatever the company wants.

 

[eolesen]

If the 85% healthy pension is there, then those at AFW should be given the $12,500 in the least.

Yeah, not sure what one has to do with the other on that, Buck. Pension funding is going to fluctuate based on market performance as much as anything else (especially if the company isn't making any contributions right now), whereas the 12.5 is simply cash out the door...

The 85% value is old -- the company reported 80% as of last April. Since the markets have almost recovered to where they were before the collapse in 2008, it's possible that the funding levels are recovering somewhat as well.

 

[FWAAA]

In December, the APFA posted a document alleging that its plan was 99% funded as of Jan 1, 2010.

http://www.apfa.org/images/retirement/how_safe_pension_plan.pdf

Given that the overall funded percentage of all four AA plans was only about 66.5% on 12/31/09, I'm skeptical that the FA plan was 99% funded, but that's what the APFA said.

One thing is for sure, over 1,000 pilots have retired early since 2008, and unless they were brain dead, each one probably exercised the lump sum option for their A plan balance. In 2011, nearly 500 retired, and it's not unreasonable to assume that perhaps $750 million or more was withdrawn from the pilot plan - leaving it severely underfunded. Last week's 10-K confirms that the overall funded percentage was worse on 12/31/11 than it was on 12/31/10.

As of 12/31/11, the overall funded percentage of all four plans was just 63%, down from 67.5% at 12/31/10 even though markets recovered in 2011. In 2011, the investment gains equaled 7.9% of the value on Jan 1, 2010.

All of my percentages are computed with the Accumulated Benefit Obligation (which AA uses when it publicly states the funded percentage).

 

[Buck]

Yeah, not sure what one has to do with the other on that, Buck. Pension funding is going to fluctuate based on market performance as much as anything else (especially if the company isn't making any contributions right now), whereas the 12.5 is simply cash out the door...

The 85% value is old -- the company reported 80% as of last April. Since the markets have almost recovered to where they were before the collapse in 2008, it's possible that the funding levels are recovering somewhat as well.

With the pensions of those represented by the TWU at 85% or nearly fully funded, the TWU early out proposal of $75000 is money that instead of enabling those already ready to retire, could be used to grant $12500 to those that will take the retirees place. Bluntly, AFW to TUL, for those that are going to make that decision.

Isn't the $12500 a contractual item used to cover moving expense in the case of a RIF?

I see the $75000 as gift to get even more out the door.

At some point if the company agrees to a similar grant, more employees will go and there could be a shortage of mechanics, at least until the new aircraft begin to arrive.

 

[limit]

In December, the APFA posted a document alleging that its plan was 99% funded as of Jan 1, 2010.

http://www.apfa.org/images/retirement/how_safe_pension_plan.pdf

Given that the overall funded percentage of all four AA plans was only about 66.5% on 12/31/09, I'm skeptical that the FA plan was 99% funded, but that's what the APFA said.

One thing is for sure, over 1,000 pilots have retired early since 2008, and unless they were brain dead, each one probably exercised the lump sum option for their A plan balance. In 2011, nearly 500 retired, and it's not unreasonable to assume that perhaps $750 million or more was withdrawn from the pilot plan - leaving it severely underfunded. Last week's 10-K confirms that the overall funded percentage was worse on 12/31/11 than it was on 12/31/10.

As of 12/31/11, the overall funded percentage of all four plans was just 63%, down from 67.5% at 12/31/10 even though markets recovered in 2011. In 2011, the investment gains equaled 7.9% of the value on Jan 1, 2010.

All of my percentages are computed with the Accumulated Benefit Obligation (which AA uses when it publicly states the funded percentage).

Of course the pilots plan is severely underfunded and will take the average way down.
The plans though are independent of each other ,and should be treated as such.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

dupe