StraaightTaalk
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AAviator said:Ah, its open season again on pilots. Actually its never closed.
[post="234821"][/post]
Cry me a river.
Pilots, Please Confirm Or Deny!
- Thread starter Hopeful
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Cry me a river.
Don't you know our bomber jackets are armoured?
will fix for food
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AAviator said:
So why didn't they flow back?
2590 on furlough, with more to go. Some went back into the military, some to other carriers, some left the profession, and there aren't enough slots at eagle to absorb the rest. If we had the 70 seater, some wouldn't be on furlough...will fix for food said:
Wretched Wrench
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AAviator said:Ah, its open season again on pilots. Actually its never closed.
Well, you've gotta admit that the demand that pilots get higher non-rev boarding status was a real PR faux pas. Little wonder that other employee groups are wary and untrusting.
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MCI transplant
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<_< First it's the ex-TWA employees who were trying to "STEAL" your jobs! Now it's the pilots!!!! Sick Man! Sick!!! 😉aafsc said:
AA717driver
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This is so nice. Someone asked to confirm or deny a rumor and it turns into an AA love-fest. You all deserve each other! :blink: This isn't even a dysfunctional family...that would be giving you all too much credit.
In any event, I just talked to a friend on the negotiating committee. He said "APA doesn't have any way to influence what the company does with ANY other labor group."
The rumor is false. The company may outsource jobs other than those pilot jobs they have already given to Eagle but APA is not in any position to affect or effect further outsourcing.
You may resume urinating on each other.TC
In any event, I just talked to a friend on the negotiating committee. He said "APA doesn't have any way to influence what the company does with ANY other labor group."
The rumor is false. The company may outsource jobs other than those pilot jobs they have already given to Eagle but APA is not in any position to affect or effect further outsourcing.
You may resume urinating on each other.TC
Well lets see ifan Eagle captain is truly making more than a AA FO you are talking about a 15 -20 year plus employee compared to a much junior employee. The Eagle pilot also works alot harder for it, we do not have the same benefits you have, and we only get paid for hours we fly. No work rules that allow us to get paid for far more hours than we fly. Last I checked AA FO's were not worth any more than any other pilot so why should their pay be.
Hopeful
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Two weeks ago, in typical AA fashion, the first wave of layoff notices went out across the system, just in time for the holidays. Mechanics at some Class II stations learned of their fate.
At JFK, 60 line cargo people were given their layoff notices. Most chose to enjoy their holidays and start their furlough early by staying home. Those of you pilots who flew in and out of JFK for the past two weeks saw you and your passengers waiting literally hours for your aircraft to be unloaded and loaded. You waited about 1 1/2 hours for a gate after a flight. All this because AA wants to do more with less.
Many a pilot were on the radios commenting on the "job action."
"JOB ACTION?????????"
It's called a reduction in force!
I commend you pilots on your 9% snapback earlier this year. Your union serves you well.
9% of the average pilot salary is monumental when you compare it to the 1 1/2% TWU increase. About $.40 an hour for us!
At JFK, 60 line cargo people were given their layoff notices. Most chose to enjoy their holidays and start their furlough early by staying home. Those of you pilots who flew in and out of JFK for the past two weeks saw you and your passengers waiting literally hours for your aircraft to be unloaded and loaded. You waited about 1 1/2 hours for a gate after a flight. All this because AA wants to do more with less.
Many a pilot were on the radios commenting on the "job action."
"JOB ACTION?????????"
It's called a reduction in force!
I commend you pilots on your 9% snapback earlier this year. Your union serves you well.
9% of the average pilot salary is monumental when you compare it to the 1 1/2% TWU increase. About $.40 an hour for us!
well, well, well,
One misses just a couple of days and another pilot "bitchh slap" session takes off louder than a non-hushkit JT8 on a 727.
Now for the unruly children, here is a explanation of the maniacal fiends at APA and their plan to rule the world. (starting with priority non-rev travel, of course). I will try to use as few little words as possible, because it seems that those most offended by this alleged act seem exceptionally mentally challenged, especially for buying into AMR's version of the events.
Now for the background;
What prompted it was the numerous divisions of AMR and their travel benefits. Any AA employee who D2'd with any frequency could easily find themselves left at the gate while some other D2'er from some AMR division trots on with a boarding pass. It happened to me too. APA's position was that the employees of the AIRLINE would get priority over the other divisions of AMR or the recently spun off SABRE. Why should a non-AA SABRE programmer, working on French railway schedules, get a seat to HNL before ANY AA employee whether that employee is a building cleaner or a 777 CA. As a sidenote, in 15 years, I have never heard a pilot state that for D2 vacation travel, that they deserved a higher priority than any other airline employee, but hey, why let that get in the way here 🙁
Nowwww, APA wants to get from here to there and how do they do it? The problem was that APA has absolutley ZERO, ZIP, NADA legal authority to negotiate with AA for any other employee group. I forget exactly why, but there is some Railway Labor Act BS involved that voids the whole request if APA tried to attach other employee groups union or not.
APA went ahead with their request for APA only based on the thought that anytime APA got something minor like this, AA just gave the same thing to all the airline employees just to keep it even, (or most likely, just easier to administer).
The paycheck Direct Deposit was the blueprint for the priority travel request. Direct Deposit for ALL employees came from the 1991 pilot negotiations. It was a big point for us then. Crandall put up a big fight against it because with our schedules, half the checks weren't getting cashed for more than 2 weeks and AA was making >$250,000/year in interest from the float. In the end, we got it as part of our contract, and shortly afterwards all the other employees got it too since it was too costly for separate systems for pay. Now most here would rather choke to death on their bile than to admit it, but you have the Pilots to thank for your DD. Funny that I never heard a "Thanks".
Finally, where I think APA screwed it up was a failure to let the APFA/TWU onto what the plan was. After APA slid the request across the table, AA knew they had another golden opportunity to drive a wedge between the employee groups again. I flew a trip the next morning. AA managers had printed up stacks of APA's position and were passing them out to every worker. I saw FA's spinning themselves into a "tizzy" in MIA ops, rampers were the same, and all of them bit right into AA's version of the events like clueless fools. It's obvious from reading the previous posts, that years later, little thought has been given by more than a few. AA never needed your help in fighting APA. You were just used for their purposes.
Just ask yourselves what bennies SABRE Tech gives you as an AA worker as one of their employees leaves you at the gate on a full flight.
Now continue the slapfest. 😉
One misses just a couple of days and another pilot "bitchh slap" session takes off louder than a non-hushkit JT8 on a 727.
Now for the unruly children, here is a explanation of the maniacal fiends at APA and their plan to rule the world. (starting with priority non-rev travel, of course). I will try to use as few little words as possible, because it seems that those most offended by this alleged act seem exceptionally mentally challenged, especially for buying into AMR's version of the events.
Now for the background;
What prompted it was the numerous divisions of AMR and their travel benefits. Any AA employee who D2'd with any frequency could easily find themselves left at the gate while some other D2'er from some AMR division trots on with a boarding pass. It happened to me too. APA's position was that the employees of the AIRLINE would get priority over the other divisions of AMR or the recently spun off SABRE. Why should a non-AA SABRE programmer, working on French railway schedules, get a seat to HNL before ANY AA employee whether that employee is a building cleaner or a 777 CA. As a sidenote, in 15 years, I have never heard a pilot state that for D2 vacation travel, that they deserved a higher priority than any other airline employee, but hey, why let that get in the way here 🙁
Nowwww, APA wants to get from here to there and how do they do it? The problem was that APA has absolutley ZERO, ZIP, NADA legal authority to negotiate with AA for any other employee group. I forget exactly why, but there is some Railway Labor Act BS involved that voids the whole request if APA tried to attach other employee groups union or not.
APA went ahead with their request for APA only based on the thought that anytime APA got something minor like this, AA just gave the same thing to all the airline employees just to keep it even, (or most likely, just easier to administer).
The paycheck Direct Deposit was the blueprint for the priority travel request. Direct Deposit for ALL employees came from the 1991 pilot negotiations. It was a big point for us then. Crandall put up a big fight against it because with our schedules, half the checks weren't getting cashed for more than 2 weeks and AA was making >$250,000/year in interest from the float. In the end, we got it as part of our contract, and shortly afterwards all the other employees got it too since it was too costly for separate systems for pay. Now most here would rather choke to death on their bile than to admit it, but you have the Pilots to thank for your DD. Funny that I never heard a "Thanks".
Finally, where I think APA screwed it up was a failure to let the APFA/TWU onto what the plan was. After APA slid the request across the table, AA knew they had another golden opportunity to drive a wedge between the employee groups again. I flew a trip the next morning. AA managers had printed up stacks of APA's position and were passing them out to every worker. I saw FA's spinning themselves into a "tizzy" in MIA ops, rampers were the same, and all of them bit right into AA's version of the events like clueless fools. It's obvious from reading the previous posts, that years later, little thought has been given by more than a few. AA never needed your help in fighting APA. You were just used for their purposes.
Just ask yourselves what bennies SABRE Tech gives you as an AA worker as one of their employees leaves you at the gate on a full flight.
Now continue the slapfest. 😉
During the time of the "higher non-rev classification for pilots" fiasco, I was talking to two pilots. They said that they objected to this and blamed their leadership. So this means that as they understood it, the APA was trying to get a higher non-rev classification for pilots. So if your version is correct, even some of your own people understood it the way non-pilot employees did.
As for direct deposit, I will say thanks, it is convienent but truthfully it was never important to me. I think it would have eventually come about though.
Regarding the APA (and ALPA) negotiating for pilots only, that is obvious and your right, it is labor law. APA has a legal duty to represent it's members to the best of it's ability and to get the best deals possible during contract negotiations for pilots only. Same with APFA and TWU with respect to their members. But, given the financial environment, the "pie" is not as big as it used to be and some are going to try to recover what they lost and then some from that much smaller pie.
As for direct deposit, I will say thanks, it is convienent but truthfully it was never important to me. I think it would have eventually come about though.
Regarding the APA (and ALPA) negotiating for pilots only, that is obvious and your right, it is labor law. APA has a legal duty to represent it's members to the best of it's ability and to get the best deals possible during contract negotiations for pilots only. Same with APFA and TWU with respect to their members. But, given the financial environment, the "pie" is not as big as it used to be and some are going to try to recover what they lost and then some from that much smaller pie.
MCI transplant said:
Happy New Year MCI! If you ex-TWA people were able to keep 100% everywhere, you would have stolen our seniority numbers and jobs. As for the pilots, the ALPA national president, Duane Worthe, reportedly sat right next to Crandall in front of a congressional committee and basically said he sees nothing wrong with maintenence outsourcing. Since he is the leader of the pilots from all legacy airlines (except AA), he is representing what his members feel. And AA pilots are no different from the pilots at the other 5. Seems like Worthe and the pilots see their salvation and restoration in the destruction of others.
