Pilots, Please Confirm Or Deny!

[AA717driver]

For any of you non-ALPA members who have any illusion that ALPA National ever gave a $**t about anyone other than themselves, I'm here to shatter it!

Duane Woerth doesn't care about outsourcing non-pilot jobs. He doesn't get paid to care about mechs., FA's and cleaners. BUT... He doesn't care about Comair, Eagle and any of the other minor players who don't determine his compensation.

Duane cares about his $400,000+ annual salary and his union-provided house and his 'made in the US of A' ALPA company car and all the other perks and overrides he makes.

Whatever you think about the integration of the TWA pilots you can believe this--ALPA National's and Duane Woerth's job during the integration talks was to attempt to get the BEST deal they could for the TWA pilots(as they should for ANY ALPA-represented pilot group). Not the most fair for everyone involved or for the benefit of mergers to come. They should have pulled out all the stops to make sure an ALPA-represented pilot group got the BEST deal they could in a merger with a non-ALPA pilot group.

I spent 15 years watching the leadership of my union turn their backs on the pilots of EAL, PanAm, Midway I, etc. in mergers or labor struggles. The let down the entire industry by sitting idly by while random drug screening and manadatory security screening were forced on us. (Sidebar: The primary reason for random drug screens was a series of railroad accidents caused by impaired crews. Railroad crews have never been subject to random tests. The reason for security screening for crews was the PSA crash caused by a non-cockpit employee. To this day, ground workers enter through gates guarded only by magnetic card-readers.)

So, no, Duane Woerthless does not represent me or, I believe, any other pilot in this industry other than himself. TC

 

[Bob Owens]

Wing,
Most of us didn't just plop into the cushy cockpits. Most of us including me, did jobs worse and more dangerous than any AA postion from -20F to +110. There is room however for education for all to improve this operation.

I'm not sure it would work both ways. We had a notorious crew planner who we finally got to ride through one of his BS scheduled trips. He sat in the cockpit jumpseat snoring the whole 13 hour, night duty period and after landing said, "that wasn't that bad". I think it would be good for some to see the frustration of flying a 11 hour flight, working every angle during that time to get a on-scheduled arrival, then sit 20 feet from your destination for 45 minutes waiting for something unclear (I know the AA blame game and the million different reasons for the wait).

Bye,
day off, spent enough comp discussion here :blink:

[post="235049"][/post]​

Only 45 minutes! You were lucky.

It goes like this. Even though you know why I'll run through it again for those who dont.

Maintenance taxis the aircraft but fleet moves them off and on the gates. The gate agents, who are also short handed must remove the jetbridge.


When I first started in this industry that was not the case, fleet unloaded it and we handled the moves as well as the live trips but then some bean counter decided that they could save money by having fleet handle recieving and dispatch. While it might in stations where they have no longer had mechanics it probably doesnt in stations where they do.

So an aircraft terminates at lets say JFK. However the aircraft must be moved because there are more inbound trip than there are gates.

Fleet and maintenance are both operating short handed so a game is set where each tries to preserve their manpower for their primary function, not getting a delay on a live trip on the gate.

So terminations sit on the gate, tying it up so inbound trips have nowhere to go.The ramp will call sometimes an hour or more ahead of time claiming that they need mechanics right away to get in the cockpit to take the plane off the gate, so they go up there and wait for fleet to push them back, or maybe both fleet and maint are waiting for a gate agent to pull the bridge, or maybe both the gate agent and fleet are waiting for the mechanics or maybe the gate agents are waiting for fleet to pull the power so they can pull the gate. In the meantime something craps out on the gate and all the mechanics are sitting up on airplanes with the jet bridge pulled. Sometimes you will have three or four crews of mechanics sitting on airplanes for an hour or more. Sometimes maintenance just doesnt have any more people. So the airplane that crapped out just ties things up even more.

Finally evrything is ready, and the plane gets pushed off the gate.

In the meantime a live trip might decide they are ready to go, and if they hear that fleet is pushing out a dump to the hangar while they are waiting some of these guys have a fit. In the meantime you, with an 11 hour day under your belt are siting out there waiting for a gate burning 1400lbs of fuel/hr.

This is a regular day here.

Stuff like this almost NEVER happened when maintence did R&D. If a crew was not there to meet an aircraft or an aircraft was not moved in time there was a hearing. The solution is simple, assign and staff maintenance to handle the entire dump. The savings in fuel burn alone would make up for the cost, if any, of additional mechanics.Have fleet notify maintenance as soon as its unloaded then let maintence handle the entire process, including removing the Jetbridge and dispatching the aircraft like they do at the hangar. Then only one department is answerable to why empty airplanes sit on the gate while weary passengers and crews sit on a taxiway waiting for a gate.

So while there may be a million different excuses there is only one real reason, too many chiefs and no one accountable.

 

[Boomer]

We were recently requested to work overtime in the Ramp bagroom and on the Line. We are MX. We were told by the Union and Management that this was allowable.

The CompAAny is continuing to furlough Ramp workers while offering OT pay to Mechanics.

 

[Hopeful]

Unfortunately the link to the video is no longer active. There is nothing mentioned about outsourcing in the witness' transcribed prepared statements. Dead end, try again. :down:

[post="234987"][/post]​

That page only has the OPENING statements of the four witnesses. That hearing was quite lengthy in duration. If you read Crandall's opening statement, he saId he was ready to answer any questions. What do you think they just had the four guys come to Capitol Hill to make a few minutes in opening statments?

The very end of that CSPAN webcast had the Senators asking Crandall and Woerth about outsourcing of maintenace. Crandall essentially stated that outsourcing of maintenance was no less safe than in house maintenance because there have been many incidents involving airline employed mechanics and safety violations and accidents. When Woerth was then asked about how the pilots felt about flying aircraft maintained by third parties, he essentially said that the government certification process of aircraft mechanics and oversight of maintenance was enough of a safeguard.

I will say this again as I have in the past.
I do not fault any work group for making gains to benefit themselves. But when one work group seeks gains at the expense of other work groups, that is plain wrong.

I.E> UNITED AIRLINES PILOTS AND THEIR $500,000,000 IN CONVERTIBLE BONDS
HINGING ON TERMINATION OF ALL OTHER EMPLOYEE PENSION PLANS.



DEAD END...TRY AGAIN, EH?

 

[local 12 proud]

We were recently requested to work overtime in the Ramp bagroom and on the Line. We are MX. We were told by the Union and Management that this was allowable.

The CompAAny is continuing to furlough Ramp workers while offering OT pay to Mechanics.

[post="235337"][/post]​

"They can do that Brother" :blink: :blink: :down:

 

[Kev3188]

We were recently requested to work overtime in the Ramp bagroom and on the Line. We are MX. We were told by the Union and Management that this was allowable.

The CompAAny is continuing to furlough Ramp workers while offering OT pay to Mechanics.

[post="235337"][/post]​

I would hope that despite the delusional nature of the twu, you guys (MX) did the right thing and refused the OT. Profiting off the misfortune of others is just pathetic.

 

[Bob Owens]

I would hope that despite the delusional nature of the twu, you guys (MX) did the right thing and refused the OT. Profiting off the misfortune of others is just pathetic.

[post="235369"][/post]​

Thats par for the course with the TWU. The TWU has a long history of putting its members against each other in order to help the company. From transferring work away from one group to another, to endorsing the companies scheme of putting one station in competition with other stations to compete for work, the TWU has worked hand in hand with the company to not only split up the membership but split up classifications. Bobby Gless, who is a TWU International rep repeatedly stated that "Those who get the work done will be the ones to get the work", repeating word for word and endorsing what management says. A real union would have told their members that our brothers and sisters in other stations are not our competitors and we should not allow the company to use other union members as a threat. The last thing the TWU wants to see is the members to stand together.

 

[DFWCC]

well, well, well,

One misses just a couple of days and another pilot "bitchh slap" session takes off louder than a non-hushkit JT8 on a 727.

Now for the unruly children, here is a explanation of the maniacal fiends at APA and their plan to rule the world. (starting with priority non-rev travel, of course). I will try to use as few little words as possible, because it seems that those most offended by this alleged act seem exceptionally mentally challenged, especially for buying into AMR's version of the events.

Now for the background;

What prompted it was the numerous divisions of AMR and their travel benefits. Any AA employee who D2'd with any frequency could easily find themselves left at the gate while some other D2'er from some AMR division trots on with a boarding pass. It happened to me too. APA's position was that the employees of the AIRLINE would get priority over the other divisions of AMR or the recently spun off SABRE. Why should a non-AA SABRE programmer, working on French railway schedules, get a seat to HNL before ANY AA employee whether that employee is a building cleaner or a 777 CA. As a sidenote, in 15 years, I have never heard a pilot state that for D2 vacation travel, that they deserved a higher priority than any other airline employee, but hey, why let that get in the way here 🙁

Nowwww, APA wants to get from here to there and how do they do it? The problem was that APA has absolutley ZERO, ZIP, NADA legal authority to negotiate with AA for any other employee group. I forget exactly why, but there is some Railway Labor Act BS involved that voids the whole request if APA tried to attach other employee groups union or not.
APA went ahead with their request for APA only based on the thought that anytime APA got something minor like this, AA just gave the same thing to all the airline employees just to keep it even, (or most likely, just easier to administer).
The paycheck Direct Deposit was the blueprint for the priority travel request. Direct Deposit for ALL employees came from the 1991 pilot negotiations. It was a big point for us then. Crandall put up a big fight against it because with our schedules, half the checks weren't getting cashed for more than 2 weeks and AA was making >$250,000/year in interest from the float. In the end, we got it as part of our contract, and shortly afterwards all the other employees got it too since it was too costly for separate systems for pay. Now most here would rather choke to death on their bile than to admit it, but you have the Pilots to thank for your DD. Funny that I never heard a "Thanks".

Finally, where I think APA screwed it up was a failure to let the APFA/TWU onto what the plan was. After APA slid the request across the table, AA knew they had another golden opportunity to drive a wedge between the employee groups again. I flew a trip the next morning. AA managers had printed up stacks of APA's position and were passing them out to every worker. I saw FA's spinning themselves into a "tizzy" in MIA ops, rampers were the same, and all of them bit right into AA's version of the events like clueless fools. It's obvious from reading the previous posts, that years later, little thought has been given by more than a few. AA never needed your help in fighting APA. You were just used for their purposes.

Just ask yourselves what bennies SABRE Tech gives you as an AA worker as one of their employees leaves you at the gate on a full flight.

Now continue the slapfest. 😉

[post="234958"][/post]​

MACH85ER, Agaim This DD of pay benefited the pilots. I along with most others I know hated it and would switch back if I (we) had a choice. It was forced on us forced on us because it benefited the pilots..

 

[planemech669]

Hopeful:

Ok Ok!!
All I wanted was to see for myself this "pilot" that supported out-sourcing say it.
Sheesh! Talk about gettin' yer bloomers all in a wad!

 

[Mach85ER]

MACH85ER, Agaim This DD of pay benefited the pilots. I along with most others I know hated it and would switch back if I (we) had a choice. It was forced on us forced on us because it benefited the pilots..

[post="235378"][/post]​

It benefited the FA's too. Many of pilots and FA's commute and it was a choice of spending hours each month trying to get a check or not get it for a couple of weeks.

Could you explain why you and most others you know hate the DD? I may be missing something, but I can't figure out what the negatives other than some guys that are upset that their wives now know what they make 😛

 

[planemech669]

It benefited the FA's too. Many of pilots and FA's commute and it was a choice of spending hours each month trying to get a check or not get it for a couple of weeks.

Could you explain why you and most others you know hate the DD? I may be missing something, but I can't figure out what the negatives other than some guys that are upset that their wives now know what they make 😛

[post="235425"][/post]​

Yeah, that jetski is going to have to wait until the kids are out of college now! 😉

 

[DFWCC]

It benefited the FA's too. Many of pilots and FA's commute and it was a choice of spending hours each month trying to get a check or not get it for a couple of weeks.

Could you explain why you and most others you know hate the DD? I may be missing something, but I can't figure out what the negatives other than some guys that are upset that their wives now know what they make 😛

[post="235425"][/post]​

It is not AA's business where I keep my money and now they have my bank acc't no. I just don't trust them. How many times do they try and cheat you of hours worked or pay do you. Then you have to go fight for it. Yeah trust this company no wAAy. Why couldn't they left it as an option.
Just like all this Jetnet crap your SOL if you don't have a PC at home. As far as I'm concerned its none of their business what I have in my home. The next thing will be is "training lessons" availible form ypur home PC. Yee!! HAW!! I can save AA more money and due my mandatory safety and training lessons at home. God knows I don't have time at work. Currently they have to pull me from my assignment and get a CC from training dept to replace me. The area I'm in requires constant manning.

 

[Skymess]

Excuse me Mr big MD80 driver. You probably look sweet in your new leather jacket.

You should have stopped at the this line. Oh, those jackets just spell CHEESE. They are HORRIBLE. Notice which pilots are the cooler ones? Hint: it's not the ones who ordered the jacket. Now we have a new way to tell who we would rather be on a layover with and who we would rather not be with all from our first view of the leather jacket down the aisle or the jetbridge. So far it's a true measuring stick.

 

[flydcoop]

It benefited the FA's too. Many of pilots and FA's commute and it was a choice of spending hours each month trying to get a check or not get it for a couple of weeks.

MUST...DIVERT...THREAD...TO...EX-WIFE's UNION. UAL's plans 😱 not going so well right now... : :unsure:

Perhaps you were being sincere but I doubt it.

Last time I checked, APFA was playing catch-up to a horribly apathetic work-force.

Coop

SLT

p.s. Hours? You walked in, grabbed it, and deposited it. I love DD, but I refuse to preen your pretty male avian feathers...

 

[goingboeing]

As an AMT I know it is the responsibility of the unions that represent each labor group to get as much as they can for THEIR group.It is not the pilots fault if their union can negoiate better non-rev travel benefits than the TWU can or any other benefit for that matter.
We need to keep the pressure on our union [TWU] to get as much as they can for us.
It is the unions job to try to get as much as possible and Arpey's job not to give too much away.

We don't need to drag the pilots down to our level,our unions need to rise up to their level on contract negoiations.
[It would help if the TWU would hire PROFESSIONAL contract negoiators to do the job instead of using Joe Bob to do it.]