Points to Ponder

[lineguy43]

NW did not have a consensual agreement with AMFA and emerged from chapter 11.

What do you mean by this?..If you are referring to the striking AMFA membership there was a strike settlement that was agreed upon before they emerged from BK.

 

[Hopeful]

Is James C Little the most company suck-up minded Union Leader you have ever seen?

Compared to Koziatek?

 

[Kev3188]

The AMT's at NW never reached a consensual agreement; the company wound up imposing their term sheet in 12/05...

 

[CMH_GSE]

The AMT's at NW never reached a consensual agreement; the company wound up imposing their term sheet in 12/05...

We should ask the NW guys how that worked out for them seeing how they were then able to negotiate better terms and not be locked in for 6 years. Whats that, they were all replaced? The hell you say...

 

[Bob Owens]

Way to fight AMFA at UAL!

According to AMFA National Director O.V. Delle-Femine, "Our members accepted this agreement through democratic voting. Our choice was to consent to concessions from the company or risk even worse terms imposed by the bankruptcy judge, who has shown a proclivity to agree to company demands. The bankruptcy laws, the court system and federal agencies like the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation are strongly biased in favor of the large airline corporations. Thanks to Congress, these laws show little concern for average workers."

As stated before 2005 not 2012. Back then UAL management could tell the court that AA and the TWU had already agreed to concessions that were in excess of what they were asking from their workers. All AA can do is say March 22 or the LBO, there is nobody under us, we are at the bottom.

 

[Bob Owens]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Exactly, how many times have we voted yes out of fear only to regret it later?

Remember 1995, remember 2003 and you will conclude that voting YES will lead to reduced living standards.

 

[Bob Owens]

And voting no means what? That we will get huge raises? Really? Time to wake up. Judge Lane is going to say that AMR should as a consequence of huge layoffs give everyone a big raise? Really? Has that happened? Uh, no.

The past is that in court CBAs get abrogated and jobs, benefits, and wages get hammered. That's the truth. No one has gotten a raise in BK court, no one. The thing you hang your hat on is that somehow in a matter of months or years of continued negotiations after BK we will get a raise to at best what? $38? $40?

Not likely but what is likely is that 4,300 will be out of a job and you will still blame the TWU and ask for another union to be our savior. Again, those that forget the past our condemned to repeat it.

What would stop the company from cutting those jobs anyway?

I agree, remember the past, remember 1995 and 2003. Give up pay and benefits to "save jobs" only to see the jobs go away anyway and see it become a job that those who are laid off choose not to come back to.

 

[Bob Owens]

US Airways pilots have been without a consensual agreement since BK.

The US Airways pilots did not agree to a deal and US still emerged from BK and the merger with America West in 2005.

In 2007 an arbitrator came up with an integrated seniority list and at about the same time the US Airways pilots formed a new independent union called USAPA.

Since that time they have filed lawsuits that have not been heard and they still don't have an agreement 7 years after BK hearings ended.

Bottom line?

An airline can emerge from BK without consensual agreements.

A new independent union did not solve the members problems.

Not coming to an agreement prior to emerging from BK most likely will not fast track an agreement after BK.

USAPA has been working every angle since 2007.

Ready to wait seven years for an agreement?

Hey that's more than the current LBO of six years...hmmmmm

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/06/04/20110604us-airways-pilot-negotiations.html

So did management go in an impose what ever they wanted? Did they start firing anyone they felt like?

I think you have it wrong and the Pilots are still working ubder their pre-merger deal, they have not agreed to a deal that would merge the two groups and if I were working under the trems they were, with their pay, even for 7 years I would not complain. I would rather work for seven years with what the USAPA has than be stuck with this six year deal that aboloshes system protection , the ASM cap, allows 55% outsourcing and erases our work rules and would peg our pay in 2018 less than what it was in 2003 and lower than what UAL gets now.

 

[A&P Mechanic]

Remember the failed T/a, people are regretting that now, any pay raise would be better then no pay raise and still higher medical costs, and a firm deal in place can work to our advantage also, as the company has to live with it too. Voting no will just give you years of more unknowns, where a yes vote will allow a little stability and protect the jobs of at least half of those who would soon be on the street, in 2003 everyone was willing to give up money to keep jobs, this time other then the medical cost your not giving up any base pay,(i understand that some AMT's will be downgraded to OSM's) but 22.00 and hour with the ability to someday return to AMT status, sure looks better then looking in from the outside, while working for way less than 22.00. No counting those that will stay because of the early out incentives, take the emotion out of it and look at the facts, then vote.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

FEAR!!!

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

dont look at the rest of the industry and the fact that we will be at the bottom with less Vacation Less holidays less pay and no relief for six years. With that an increase in Medical premiums that will equate to around 2 dollars an hour. Lets sell ourselves short afterall the twu must be right and the leadership of the APA and APFA are wrong. If you vote YES you are sealing your fate with more concessions than ever. Lets see them emerge from bankruptcy with no labor contracts for the pilots or F/As we will be the only fools who gave in to their "ridiculous" demands
VOTE NO save yourself from the twu make them earn the money you have to pay them....

 

[iluvaa]

Remember the failed T/a, people are regretting that now, any pay raise would be better then no pay raise and still higher medical costs, and a firm deal in place can work to our advantage also, as the company has to live with it too. Voting no will just give you years of more unknowns, where a yes vote will allow a little stability and protect the jobs of at least half of those who would soon be on the street, in 2003 everyone was willing to give up money to keep jobs, this time other then the medical cost your not giving up any base pay,(i understand that some AMT's will be downgraded to OSM's) but 22.00 and hour with the ability to someday return to AMT status, sure looks better then looking in from the outside, while working for way less than 22.00. No counting those that will stay because of the early out incentives, take the emotion out of it and look at the facts, then vote.

Show me the facts that this will save jobs.
I would love to see the look on your face, lets say a year from now when they hand you your rif notice and you say "but but you said voting yes would save jobs"

 

[iluvaa]

chirp chirp

 

[OldGuy@AA]

It will be just like 95 when people finally figure out we got screwed. (Shortly after the layoffs start) The TWU will say "You voted for it." Remember you voted yes to save jobs when the layoffs go back 20 years and they offer you an OSM position. Also just wait till they get their company chosen crew chiefs in place. We believed AA and TWU in 2003 and we were lied to. We voted yes to save jobs and the people were laid off anyway. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Buck]

Remember the failed T/a, people are regretting that now, any pay raise would be better then no pay raise and still higher medical costs, and a firm deal in place can work to our advantage also, as the company has to live with it too. Voting no will just give you years of more unknowns, where a yes vote will allow a little stability and protect the jobs of at least half of those who would soon be on the street, in 2003 everyone was willing to give up money to keep jobs, this time other then the medical cost your not giving up any base pay,(i understand that some AMT's will be downgraded to OSM's) but 22.00 and hour with the ability to someday return to AMT status, sure looks better then looking in from the outside, while working for way less than 22.00. No counting those that will stay because of the early out incentives, take the emotion out of it and look at the facts, then vote.

Curious,how long have you been a mechanic with AA and represented by the TWU?

The membership has been giving back since 1983. Even with the 2001 contract, it costs the membership in other ways.