Pope accused of crimes against humanity by victims of sex abuse

[Ms Tree]

Victims' complaint to the international criminal court accuses Pope Benedict and three others of failing to prevent abusers

Victims of sexual abuse by Catholic priests have accused the pope, the Vatican secretary of state and two other high-ranking Holy See officials of crimes against humanity, in a formal complaint to the international criminal court (ICC).

The submission, lodged at The Hague on Tuesday, accuses the four men not only of failing to prevent or punish perpetrators of rape and sexual violence but also of engaging in the "systematic and widespread" practice of concealing sexual crimes around the world.

I doubt it will get traction but who knows, may be justice will be served.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I get your point but how can justice be served in such a heinous case. I know someone who was a victim and their last name should be Planter's or Fishers.

I have to tell you that I have to believe in Heaven and hell because I can't think of an earthly punishment that could come close to justice

 

[Ms Tree]

I do not know if there is a punishment after life. I do know there can be some punishment here on earth. Punishment aside, perhaps a trial, exposure and punishment here on earth will prevent other children from being aped by church representatives. I have as much of an interest in preventing future abuse as punishing past abuse.

Just because absolute justice cannot be served is no reason not to serve as much justice as can humanly be meted out.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I do not know if there is a punishment after life. I do know there can be some punishment here on earth. Punishment aside, perhaps a trial, exposure and punishment here on earth will prevent other children from being aped by church representatives. I have as much of an interest in preventing future abuse as punishing past abuse.

Just because absolute justice cannot be served is no reason not to serve as much justice as can humanly be meted out.

I especially agree with the last sentence. Sadly while we would all like to think that a trial and exposure will alter or prevent abuse. They won't! What can possibly be changed and maybe this is enough is the way the Institution in this case the Catholic Church handles these types of things. I get that there will be sexual deviants forever. How they're dealt with by an organization must change. It's worth the try at least. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

 

[Ms Tree]

I did not mean to say that the trial would prevent all abuse. I was just referring to the way the Vatican deals with rapists and abusers. My hope is that if they are tried and exposed, the Vatican will stop doing the 'Vatican Shuffle' and be forced to hand them over to authorities for trial.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I did not mean to say that the trial would prevent all abuse. I was just referring to the way the Vatican deals with rapists and abusers. My hope is that if they are tried and exposed, the Vatican will stop doing the 'Vatican Shuffle' and be forced to hand them over to authorities for trial.

A lot of it has stopped due to the staggering weight of the financial judgements here in the states. If this trial further embarrasses the church into a more cooperative role then I say let's have 2 trials.

 

[Ms Tree]

Agreed.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

I'll take the bait just because.

Was there a crime? Absolutely. And not just within the Catholic Church.

Amusing there are almost never media articles describing abuse in other religious organizations. Perhaps maybe because the Catholic Church is perceived to be the richest target?

The woman in the article who wanted to be a nun -- how long ago was this 'repeated' assault and what has she done since then? Where are the parents? If you are a parent and don't know something is very wrong with your kid then you simply are not engaged.

The Catholic Church remains the greatest institution in the history of the world with a reputation for defending and enriching life.

Yes there have been abuses. And we are making corrections.

Yes the Church has founded and maintained formal educational systems, health care and defense of life.

So I would ask all those who are now condemning the Catholic Church -- what is your position on protecting life?

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'll take the bait just because.

Was there a crime? Absolutely. And not just within the Catholic Church.

Amusing there are almost never media articles describing abuse in other religious organizations. Perhaps maybe because the Catholic Church is perceived to be the richest target?

The woman in the article who wanted to be a nun -- how long ago was this 'repeated' assault and what has she done since then? Where are the parents? If you are a parent and don't know something is very wrong with your kid then you simply are not engaged.

The Catholic Church remains the greatest institution in the history of the world with a reputation for defending and enriching life.

Yes there have been abuses. And we are making corrections.

Yes the Church has founded and maintained formal educational systems, health care and defense of life.

So I would ask all those who are now condemning the Catholic Church -- what is your position on protecting life?

Protecting life as in not sending hundreds of thousands of soldiers to fight in foreign wars perpetuated by our Government? I'm Pro-Life, send everyone of them home NOW!

What a sovereign citizen of the United States decides regarding abortion is between her and the God (or no God) of her choosing and the Federal, State and local Governments should have no say in the matter! So yes I am Pro-life as in favor of protecting the rights of people who actually exist work and pay taxes to be free from government or religious zealotry. Personally I'm opposed to abortion so I don't have them.

Not a big fan of the gay lifestyle either so I don't have sex with other men. So yes I'd say I'm for protecting life and an individuals right to have sex with any consenting adult they so choose.

Now then as to the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Referring to the Douay-Rheims Bible used by the church. Review Matthew 7:16, "By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" Well we know the Roman Catholic church by their "Fruits". The Church is in the position they are because of no ones actions save their own. No one held a gun to the hierarchy and told them to engage in a worldwide conspiracy to cover up the conduct of their numerous pedophile Priests. It's a pretty bizarre world we live in when you point out the obvious that somehow you're "Catholic Bashing"! To which I say "Why waste time bashing the Catholic Church they're doing a fine job all by themselves."

Well when the Catholic Church showed us who they are, we believed them just as Jesus stated, "By their fruits shall ye know them"

We know and now you're pissed because we are vocal in our beliefs. Welcome to the land of Freedom and Liberty!! Enjoy it while you can as I have a feeling our days as a free society are numbered

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Not getting into a Bible-quoting pissing contest w/ you because before you know it somebody's eye is going to get smote out or a wife will turn into a pillar of salt.

You are wrong. Our days as a free society are not numbered because of the government or Church you disagree with. Only in America.

Life begins at conception because it cannot begin at any other time.

I am happy with my choices in life. How about you?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Not getting into a Bible-quoting pissing contest w/ you because before you know it somebody's eye is going to get smote out or a wife will turn into a pillar of salt.

You are wrong. Our days as a free society are not numbered because of the government or Church you disagree with. Only in America.

Life begins at conception because it cannot begin at any other time.

I am happy with my choices in life. How about you?

I'd like to think I've made mostly good choices. Throwing in with a heroin addict and having to change my screen name and a whole bunch of other more important things behind the scenes wasn't my best moment. However, I do believe in second changes so in the end few if any regrets. I did the right thing. She chose a different path and I can't control that. I can only control my actions and emotions. She is where she is not because of me but because of herself. Much like the Catholic Church.

 

[Ms Tree]

I was not away that any other institution has been accused of abuse on the scale that the Vatican has been. Do you have any thing that says other wise? If has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Vatican protected know abusers/rapists by moving them around the system. The Vatican has paid out millions in settlements to try and make this go away. Is there any other institution that has this history or any thing even close?

Abortion has nothing to do with this argument. Are you trying to imply that since I am in favor of a womans right to control her body that I have no right to upset about the abuse of innocent children? Opposition to abortion obviously did not stop the Vatican officials from raping and molesting little children.

Perhaps the Vatican is being picked on because the leadership that is supposed to be above reproach regarding morality failed miserably in the duty to protect the innocent. Whats worse is that they seemed to have done it with indifference and malice.

 

[xUT]

I was not away that any other institution has been accused of abuse on the scale that the Vatican has been. Do you have any thing that says other wise? If has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Vatican protected know abusers/rapists by moving them around the system. The Vatican has paid out millions in settlements to try and make this go away. Is there any other institution that has this history or any thing even close?

Gee I don't know, how about 9 year old girls married to 50 year old men. I guess it's not rape or child abuse if it's not a Christian.

Of course, no one has protested as to to the scale of the Vatican offenses, but then again, they kill them and it's a non issue.

Thank GOD the civilized world can see the Vatican offenses and work to make them correct it.
Other religions/cultures...not so much.

 

[Ms Tree]

What on earth are you talking about. Western society law says that sex with a minor is rape. Religion has nothing to do with it. What other societies do is up to them. The Vatican says that sex with a minor is wrong. They conspired to protect rapest in their ranks. How on earth can you even begin to justify such behavior?

 

[xUT]

What on earth are you talking about. Western society law says that sex with a minor is rape. Religion has nothing to do with it. What other societies do is up to them. The Vatican says that sex with a minor is wrong. They conspired to protect rapest in their ranks. How on earth can you even begin to justify such behavior?

Just giving you the facts.
Can't figure it out?