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[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 9:33:26 PM diogenes wrote:
[P]1. Don't think the company owes you something because the t/a's were ratified. They are not grateful. You are making (or are about to be) exactly what they think you should have been making all along. Silly you; you've been overpaid the past decade.[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]all the "wonderful" pleasantries we've experienced with our industry and you still think this way?please! compete or die![/FONT][/STRONG][BR][BR]2. All the unions are walking around hairy-chested, saying, by God, management better not come back for more![BR][STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]i do not recall bill frieberger or frank schifano doing this.they were,in fact quite realistic of the consequences. [/FONT][/STRONG][BR]BULLHOCKEY!! You stood still for it (and if the truth were known, complicit in it)twice. You'll stand still for it again. "We've already determined what kind of girl you are;we're just negotiating the price."[BR][BR]3. There will be the inevitable posts, ad nauseum, to give til it hurts. [BR][BR]Help me with a catchy new slogan.[BR][STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]roses are red,violets are blue.don't accept this package and brother we're through[/FONT][/STRONG][BR]Concessions, Part I - Ratify or abrogate![BR]CPII - Ratify or liquidate![BR]CPIII - Ratify or ???????[BR][BR]We will offer the results to U management free of charge.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
 
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On 1/11/2003 10:40:29 PM DELLDUDE wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 1/11/2003 9:33:26 PM diogenes wrote:


1. Don't think the company owes you something because the t/a's were ratified. They are not grateful. You are making (or are about to be) exactly what they think you should have been making all along. Silly you; you've been overpaid the past decade.[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]all the "wonderful" pleasantries we've experienced with our industry and you still think this way?please! compete or die![/FONT][/STRONG]

2. All the unions are walking around hairy-chested, saying, by God, management better not come back for more!
[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]i do not recall bill frieberger or frank schifano doing this.they were,in fact quite realistic of the consequences. [/FONT][/STRONG]
BULLHOCKEY!! You stood still for it (and if the truth were known, complicit in it)twice. You'll stand still for it again. "We've already determined what kind of girl you are;we're just negotiating the price."

3. There will be the inevitable posts, ad nauseum, to give til it hurts.

Help me with a catchy new slogan.
[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]roses are red,violets are blue.don't accept this package and brother we're through[/FONT][/STRONG]
Concessions, Part I - Ratify or abrogate!
CPII - Ratify or liquidate!
CPIII - Ratify or ???????

We will offer the results to U management free of charge.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]


[/P]
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[/blockquote]
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1. Hey sport, the past decade might have been ok for you; the agents have been to busy subsidizing this airline to enjoy it. And not even a kiss first. And I have yet to meet a mech that is intimate with our situation or contract, so unless you're the exception, save your speculation. Or do you think I'm riding your coattails too?
Compete or die? Be careful of the stones you cast. Take your contract and overlay in on WN's. Take my contract and overlay it on WN's. You'd come out on the short end of the stick. How do I KNOW? I've got all three copies of the contracts.

2. That quote came straight from our AGC's.

3. Violets are blue, roses are red
Trusting the union and the company will get your wallet bled!
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/11/2003 10:40:29 PM DELLDUDE wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------
On 1/11/2003 9:33:26 PM diogenes wrote:


1. Don't think the company owes you something because the t/a's were ratified. They are not grateful. You are making (or are about to be) exactly what they think you should have been making all along. Silly you; you've been overpaid the past decade.[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]all the "wonderful" pleasantries we've experienced with our industry and you still think this way?please! compete or die![/FONT][/STRONG]

2. All the unions are walking around hairy-chested, saying, by God, management better not come back for more!
[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]i do not recall bill frieberger or frank schifano doing this.they were,in fact quite realistic of the consequences. [/FONT][/STRONG]
BULLHOCKEY!! You stood still for it (and if the truth were known, complicit in it)twice. You'll stand still for it again. "We've already determined what kind of girl you are;we're just negotiating the price."

3. There will be the inevitable posts, ad nauseum, to give til it hurts.

Help me with a catchy new slogan.
[STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]roses are red,violets are blue.don't accept this package and brother we're through[/FONT][/STRONG]
Concessions, Part I - Ratify or abrogate!
CPII - Ratify or liquidate!
CPIII - Ratify or ???????

We will offer the results to U management free of charge.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]


[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]
-----------------------------------------------------------

1. Hey sport, the past decade might have been ok for you; the agents have been to busy subsidizing this airline to enjoy it. And not even a kiss first. And I have yet to meet a mech that is intimate with our situation or contract, so unless you're the exception, save your speculation. Or do you think I'm riding your coattails too?

2. That quote came straight from our AGC's.

3. Violets are blue, roses are red
Trusting the union and the company will get your wallet bled!
 
[BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]: [BR][BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 10:40:29 PM DELLDUDE wrote: [BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][STRONG][FONT face='"Comic' MS" Sans][/FONT][/STRONG][BR][BR][BR][BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]-----------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR]1. Hey sport, the past decade might have been ok for you; the agents have been to busy subsidizing this airline to enjoy it. And not even a kiss first. And I have yet to meet a mech that is intimate with our situation or contract, so unless you're the exception, save your speculation. Or do you think I'm riding your coattails too?[BR]Compete or die? Be careful of the stones you cast. Take your contract and overlay in on WN's. Take my contract and overlay it on WN's. You'd come out on the short end of the stick. How do I KNOW? I've got all three copies of the contracts. [BR][BR]2. That quote came straight from our AGC's.[BR][BR]3. Violets are blue, roses are red[BR]Trusting the union and the company will get your wallet bled! [BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]
[H5]hey BUB we been gettin' it in the can since 92 or didn't you notice during your grief?[BR]about our contract an WN,i'm not sure you are aware of this but we aren't the same airline with the same work rules so quit comparing us to them.secondly they have MORE PRODUCTIVE EMPLOYEES, LESS DEBT THAN US AND THEY MAKE A BETTER PROFIT THAN WE DO. so compete or die![BR]i don't like our situation anymore than you.you apparently have a good resume,well then use it.like a copy to your hero's at WN.[BR]oh,and for your "catchy new phrase"-how's about 'people who do not learn from the past,tend to repeat it.[/H5]
 
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On 1/13/2003 6:01:24 PM DELLDUDE wrote:




[BLOCKQUOTE]
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:




[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 1/11/2003 10:40:29 PM DELLDUDE wrote:






[BLOCKQUOTE][STRONG][FONT face='"Comic' MS" Sans][/FONT][/STRONG]



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[/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]
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1. Hey sport, the past decade might have been ok for you; the agents have been to busy subsidizing this airline to enjoy it. And not even a kiss first. And I have yet to meet a mech that is intimate with our situation or contract, so unless you're the exception, save your speculation. Or do you think I'm riding your coattails too?
Compete or die? Be careful of the stones you cast. Take your contract and overlay in on WN's. Take my contract and overlay it on WN's. You'd come out on the short end of the stick. How do I KNOW? I've got all three copies of the contracts.

2. That quote came straight from our AGC's.

3. Violets are blue, roses are red
Trusting the union and the company will get your wallet bled!

----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]


[H5]hey BUB we been gettin' it in the can since 92 or didn't you notice during your grief?
about our contract an WN,i'm not sure you are aware of this but we aren't the same airline with the same work rules so quit comparing us to them.secondly they have MORE PRODUCTIVE EMPLOYEES, LESS DEBT THAN US AND THEY MAKE A BETTER PROFIT THAN WE DO. so compete or die!
i don't like our situation anymore than you.you apparently have a good resume,well then use it.like a copy to your hero's at WN.
oh,and for your "catchy new phrase"-how's about 'people who do not learn from the past,tend to repeat it.[/H5]
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[/blockquote]
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Perhaps if EVERY contract on the property compared as favorably to WN's as ours does, U would have been profitable all these years. I daresay there are a few that suffer by comparison.

Forget WN? As much as U mgmt would like to, they can't. While DL and AA have responded to U's BK, WN hasn't even flinched. How much pressure could they bring to bear if they choose? Assume they go to their employees in the event of an Iraqi War, and say, hey, we need 10% for 18 months. They'd get it, could lower fares EVEN MORE, and watch U and UA starve. After BK, U does NOT match WN's CASM.

When and how I go is MY business.

The point of this board is debate and dissent - it ain't Pravda.
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On [BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE][STRONG][FONT face="Comic Sans MS"][/FONT][/STRONG][BR][BR][BR][BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]-----------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR] [BR][BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[H5] [/H5][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR] [BR]Perhaps if EVERY contract on the property compared as favorably to WN's as ours does, U would have been profitable all these years. I daresay there are a few that suffer by comparison.[BR][BR]Forget WN? As much as U mgmt would like to, they can't. While DL and AA have responded to U's BK, WN hasn't even flinched. How much pressure could they bring to bear if they choose? Assume they go to their employees in the event of an Iraqi War, and say, hey, we need 10% for 18 months. They'd get it, could lower fares EVEN MORE, and watch U and UA starve. After BK, U does NOT match WN's CASM.[BR][BR]When and how I go is MY business.[BR][BR]The point of this board is debate and dissent - it ain't Pravda.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]never said forget WN.said/infered if we don't get our cost structure in line we ain't goimg to be around long enough to compete.yes,WN employees would most likely line up to give..they appear to be very loyal and company success oriented(not like here).[BR]yes comrade,when and how you go ees your beesnuss..please don't let door heet you in arse on way out.nas drovi....you're so much the cynic![/P]
 
Perhaps if EVERY contract on the property compared as favorably to WN's as ours does, U would have been profitable all these years. I daresay there are a few that suffer by comparison.

Forget WN? As much as U mgmt would like to, they can't. While DL and AA have responded to U's BK, WN hasn't even flinched. How much pressure could they bring to bear if they choose? Assume they go to their employees in the event of an Iraqi War, and say, hey, we need 10% for 18 months. They'd get it, could lower fares EVEN MORE, and watch U and UA starve. After BK, U does NOT match WN's CASM.

When and how I go is MY business.

The point of this board is debate and dissent - it ain't Pravda.


[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]


never said forget WN.said/infered if we don't get our cost structure in line we ain't goimg to be around long enough to compete.yes,WN employees would most likely line up to give..they appear to be very loyal and company success oriented(not like here).
yes comrade,when and how you go ees your beesnuss..please don't let door heet you in arse on way out.nas drovi....you're so much the cynic![/P]
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Glad to see you know who diogenes was.

As to whether I'm a cynic with regards to U, time will shortly tell, won't it? I'm big enough to mea culpa if I'm wrong; it's happened a time or two.

I agree with your comment on our cost structure. Perhaps you would elaborate on lowerering it.
 
looks like dave bronner is taking care of that.all we get is take it or leave it like it or lump it,right?look at the bright side,if what i read is true 100 of your workers will soon be back hopefully helping you and our customers.[BR]and thanks to you,i learned about a guy who basically told alexander the not yet great to take a walk.[BR]you see my point about those at WN who'd gladly take a cut to help?look at all the bitterness we have.there has been so many past negotiated goofs in every labor contract on the property over the years and now in times of famine they have come home to haunt you,me and every other one in the company.i do not like it,neither do you.the options are:stay and maybe we can do something down the road,or leave for greener pastures.i know your agc's got some incentives for your givebacks just like ours.if we get out of BK and things pick up,maybe,MAYBE some incentives will help make the cuts worthwhile.until then WE must do what we have to ,whether that be stay or move on.look at the bright side once in awhile.
 
[blockquote]
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On 1/15/2003 8:29:42 AM DELLDUDE wrote:

looks like dave bronner is taking care of that.all we get is take it or leave it like it or lump it,right?look at the bright side,if what i read is true 100 of your workers will soon be back hopefully helping you and our customers.
and thanks to you,i learned about a guy who basically told alexander the not yet great to take a walk.
you see my point about those at WN who'd gladly take a cut to help?look at all the bitterness we have.there has been so many past negotiated goofs in every labor contract on the property over the years and now in times of famine they have come home to haunt you,me and every other one in the company.i do not like it,neither do you.the options are:stay and maybe we can do something down the road,or leave for greener pastures.i know your agc's got some incentives for your givebacks just like ours.if we get out of BK and things pick up,maybe,MAYBE some incentives will help make the cuts worthwhile.until then WE must do what we have to ,whether that be stay or move on.look at the bright side once in awhile.
ps;please be gentle as i only type with 2 fingers!
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That's the cool part about history. it's easy to paint ol' Dio as just a cynic, but there's more to him than that.

I agree with all of the above. I especially agree about the esprit de corp - there's two sides to that equation. Labor has stepped up to the plate. Will/can management? They gotta do a 180 pronto. All through this deal I just wanted to keep management honest.

dio II to mgmt.

"You're standing in my light" [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
 
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