Price Of Gas

[helidude]

Baldeagle, I would rather see the manufacturers design the same vehicles but with twice the fuel efficiency. There's no reason why they can't, the technology exists. It's just a lack of lobbying from mainstream interests groups. (No one listens to that Suzuki fellow and other tree huggers)
The North American governments should legislate much tougher standards for vehicles.
What's the most surprising to me is that the oil companies don't seem to think very far in the future. We all know the world oil reserves will depleet themselves sooner or later (the way China is expanding I think it will be much sooner than later!!!) So how come we don't see Shell, Exxon, B.P. etc investing in research and developpement of other sources of energy? Why isn't every rooftop in North America a big solar panel etc???

 

[skullcap]

Baldeagle;

Did you know that a gas powered lawn mower puts out the same pollutants in one hour as 40 normal vehicles with pollution control?

My guess is that jetskis, snowmobiles, quads are better but not as good as vehicles. I know that snowmobiles are banned in certain drainages as they puke out too much pollution into the creeks and such. Nothing wrong with bringing up information. But if your landrover isn't cost competative and we don't want cheap stuff hmmmm, guess we just keep on rolling along. I do believe that more power really isn't needed now and so maybe the manufactures will develope better economy. Although vehicles with extra power when not using it tend to be more miserly, what is the gas milage in a bmw at 180kmhr, maybe you should slow down so you don't waste all that gas. Maybe Europe should instigate lower speed limits, eh? 🙄

sc

 

[BaldEagle]

either you're a deisel engine saleman, or a greenpeace activist...haven't figured it out yet. :blink:

MagSeal

Neither. I am just a Pilot !

helidude

Here's my # 1 reason for driving a full size S.U.V. : SAFETY

I need to find and show you a few pictures I did see in some N A newspapers after some crashes with SUV just broken in two !!! something I never saw in European cars. You would be amazed to find out how fragile they are and how much plastic goes in instead of metal.

They surely look strong but they aren't at all. Try to read the US safety tests that were failed by those SUV's and you will learn a thing or two.

 

[shaggy]

having recently returned from europe and seeing the price of fuel here in alberta, all i can say is, thank goodness! i rented a 1.6 L ford focus hatchback which cost just under $90 (cdn) to fill. the vast majority of the cost of fuel in europe is tax, much more so than here. we should consider ourselves lucky.
the other obvious difference was the lack of large personal vehicles on the roads. i saw one F250 the whole time i was there (who knows why it was there as it wouldn't fit on many of the roads in the first place). SUV's were extremely rare. however, the cars that are seen on the highways were not these 2 seater runabouts that were common in the big cities, the were mostly 4 door sedans and luxury cars, many of which were deisels (jags, volvo's saab's, etc). nobody drives exhibitions over there because they seem to understand that they aren't practical to begin with. as far as road safety is concerned the safest vehicle designs seem to be sedans (volvo's, mercedes, saab's, etc). i think that the safety arguement is moot as drivers in europe are better than here and also the SUV drivers who drive like a$$holes because they think they're safer are not in the equation.

 

[skullcap]

Baldeagle;

The speed issue you love to proclaim just doesn't seem to fit your mentality of lowering fuel usage, perhaps you have more in common with some of the power hungry North Americans than you would like to admit. In Canada when they raised the speed limit for big trucks the truckers were actually pissed about the extra fuel they'd have to use to maintain the speed limit. In Montana where there is no official posted speed limits to a large number of highways you will find that 70 mph is the norm and the only people that usually pass you are speed freaks from out of state.

You don't like gas guzzlers, well I don't like people who speed unnessessarily and put me and my family's safety in jeapardy. And don't go on about how excess speed doesn't cause accidents unless you want to prove that you are a complete hypocrit.

Now maybe we can go on complaining about the friggin high price of gas and taxes.

sc

 

[Rosco]

A certain European made sedan with a Princess in it didn't fair too well in a certain crash either...

Anyways,

Having driven vehicles starting at 500lbs up to and including 140 000 lbs with everything in between, I can tell you that I have seen lots and experienced even more.

At an average of 5 mi/gal in summer and as low as 3.5 mi/gal on winter fuel the cost dramatically affects the bottom line. These high prices are hurting everyone, especially those in the transportation sector. Speed is a huge consumer of revenue especially at the big weights......Scullcap is right on the mark in what he said about trucking companies and Professional Drivers.

Speed not only wastes fuel but kills! Think of this when driving on an autobahn or other highway at a high rate of speed.

A Super Train loaded to max G.V.W (140 000lbs) requires an additional 120' in stopping distance for every 1 KM/H over 90 and fuel consumption over 100 Kms/hr increases drastically with no advantage as the engine is developing max TQ on the curve at lower RPM.

Deisels arent efficient when turning high RPM's.

R

 

[BaldEagle]

Baldeagle;

The speed issue you love to proclaim just doesn't seem to fit your mentality of lowering fuel usage, perhaps you have more in common with some of the power hungry North Americans than you would like to admit.

I saw complaints about fuel prices that are well below those that are common in Europe and that are put there with about 75% of tax to discourage waste and foster better fuel efficiency usage.

The speed limits don't have much to do with what we are talking about because I can travel at 200 Kms per hour, (something I did a lot of times) with about one third to one half of the amount of fuel you spend in a SUV driving at half that speed, lets say 100 Kms / hr (if that is not against the law). I know this is hard to believe but its the reality.

So one thing is pushing for fuel efficient engines and spending energy efficiently (that's what I am doing regardless of the driving speed) and another completely different is wasting unnaceptable amounts of energy just because its cheap and nobody cares about squandering a finite resource.

Of course you can go back and keep complaining about high fuel prices (that are in reality cheap), but you must admit the possibility that others that are concerned with the future do not share your opinion and see this increase in price as a reminder to spend energy more efficiently.

If you still have lots of gravel roads around, so a hefty fuel tax (European style) would be welcome and put all that cash to improve your road system, because better roads is yet another very good way of saving fuel !!!.

There are no SUV's and American type of pick-ups in Europe because they are socially unnaceptable and extremely expensive to "feed". The biggest things around are the Mercedes Benz wagen and the Land Rover line (Defender, Discovery and Freelander). Now since Ford took over Volvo we got another nice one but that is about all I can recall. Somehow we manage to survive without 5L engines and above B)

Now back to your unjustified complaints. 😀

 

[BaldEagle]

A certain European made sedan with a Princess in it didn't fair too well in a certain crash either...

Anyways,

Rosco

The accident you are calling my attention too was a high speed accident against a concrete pylon in a tunnel, caused by another vehicle that hit this car that was driven by an extremely drunk driver. No one could survive such an accident in any car. The fact that one bodyguard survived was sheer luck.

That car has the highest safety record in Europe now, after Volvo lost the first place.
I don't want to seem rude, but I would risk to say that there is nothing built in North America that can match the quality, the safety, the technology, the workmanship and the fuel efficiency of Mercedes Benz cars.

If you travel to Europe you almost can't see any American built car at all and in North America there are millions of European built vehicles. There must be a reason for that. Some exceptions make some inroads in the Euro market (like Jeep) but with italian built Diesel engines. Again they turn to European technology of fuel efficiency to be able to sell here. Those huge innefient Diesel's or Gasoline engines nobody wants them here.

Deisels arent efficient when turning high RPM's.

Exactly. Diesels are a lot more efficient especially at LOW RPM's.
In fact one of the characteristics of diesels is that they deliver a lot more torque at lower RPM's than gasoline ones.

But they don't need more then that. In fact the maximum RPM's of a Diesel is about half of the max RPM of a gasoline engine of the same power.

This is due the the compression ratio that in Gasoline engines is around 9 or 10 to 1 and in Diesels is 20 to 22 to 1 and one of the last models has a 23.4:1 ratio.
For this reason they must be and are a lot stronger and because they work at much lower RPM's they last a lot longer too.

A Volkswagen diesel engine can go to 250,000. A Mercedes Diesel engine can go to 500,000 Kms without a major overhaul. Its common in Europe taxis with 2 or 3 million Kms in their counter and 4 or 5 overhauls in the same engine.

You can add this characteristics to energy efficiency too, because conserving engines for longer service also spares the energy spending of building a new one while creating some needed jobs in the engine rebuilding companies 😀

Now you can keep complaining about you cheap gas prices 😀
--

 

[skullcap]

I drive on average 30- 40,000k a year for work and most of it long distance. The N. American market drives longer distances than the european. On bigger roads which accomodate larger vehicles. The technology in NA is geared towards this. Compare south america, I was sickened by the number of vehicles especially diesels in Peru that puked out clouds of smoke. Most trucks were Mercedes that were equipped with 6 inch exhausts pouring smoke 15 feet in the air. It is the countries that are undeveloped that in my point of view create most of the pollution, and their fuel is cheap too, why not pick on them. If you believe that your 75% tax is to lower consumtion and foster better economy, then there's some swamp land for sale down south. They didn't put the tax in overnight did they, it was a relatively slow progression feeling out how much strain the taxpayer could take, if they wanted to lower consumption and seek out better economy then ALL the strain would have been placed on the manufactures, it is kinda like taxing smokers with the same justification. If they wanted people to not get sick and die from smoking they would enforce tobaco companies to eliminate the deadly contaminants in cigarettes, but that would mean that they would not get the tax revenues. Wake up, they like the cushy seats and ivory towers they work in, you are being hosed by your government and tricked to believe we are the enemy.

Our price of fuel is unjustified, we have huge amounts of oil reseves and huge profits being made. Our roads are being repaired well but remember how large Canada is and compare one of our great lakes to the size of most european countries, we have much untracked land which may never have descent roads and since we are in the business of exploration we must have vehicles to deal with these logistics. We don't all live in LA and drive suv's to work alone. I do sympathize with the high price you pay for fuel in europe, also, food, heat, clothing, housing. Guess that's why I live here.

Still don't get why you think it is ok to whine about the excess fuel usage when you think it is ok to speed and piss away fuel doing it? The high speeds in which you drive "waste" fuel, slow down. If you were totally righteous then you would be equally grumpy about the high speed used in europe. Think about the extra wear of the vehicle and the high health care costs and risks that people take to rescue the speed freaks.

I'm off to fly my french built high powered 190 ltr per hour fuel hog at a great rate of speed over small buildings and slow moving fat north americans driving poorly into things not meant to be driven into(probably blinded by their own fowl cigerette smoke or misplaced empty cheesy bags being blown around by the airconditioner still turned on or empty beer cans jammed under the brake).

Oh, and its snowing again. :down: :down:

sc

 

[shaggy]

yeah, well, i think we would all agree that there is a lot of hipocracy (sp?) in government and that we pay a lot in taxes but no agrument will convince me that when average joe drives around the corner to pick up an overpackaged, unhealthy snack made of some sort of petroleum product it is better (or safer) to do so in a 3 tonne/7.4 L SUV than a 2L sedan. my point being, we as members of the general public will probably never be able to do anything to lower the price of fuel but we as individuals can do an awful lot to spend less on fuel starting with driving more fuel efficient verhicles. the choice really is up to the consumer.

 

[skullcap]

According to today's Calgary Herald

"Saudi Arabia puts brakes on surging crude-oil prices.

Concerned that high prices could stall global economic growth, the Saudis called on the organization of Petrleum Exporting Countries to raise out quotas by 1.5 million barrels a day, or 6.4%. "

"$40 a barrel set of alarm bells not only in consuming nations, but in the capitals of major oil producers....like saudi Arabia who don't want to damage long-term oil demand," said Gary Ross CE of New Yorks PIRA Energy Agency.

Saudi Arabia's apparent willingness to send prices lower sent shivers through world oil stocks."

Well I'll be, they want to keep the price down so we'll still buy it, sounds like a crisis to me. In 30 years if they haven't perfected another source of energy for my "vehicles" then I'll begin to worry, until then will continue to bitts about the price.

TA TA

sc

PS Baldeagle, don't have a SUV and can't afford a mercedes,,,,yet.

 

[Rosco]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

A volks @ 250K and a benz @ 500K........ 😱


I've got a bunch of CATs, Detroits and Cummins that've hit 1 million plus without any major rework and that's pullin about 45 volkswagen or benzs at one time for extended periods of time.

Thanks for the lesson on Diesel engines....I had No idea.....good thing I quit working on helicopters a while back...who knows where I'd be now 🙄

Enjoy whatever it is you drive and I'll think about you everytime I pay my Shell bill for $40,000-$60,000/month in Diesel.


As for the safety stats on the benz.......Thanks...I had no idea once again....we only have two in our family.

You're right Scully, we have long ways to drive in this country even just gettin to work. I did the N.Ab, N.BC, NWT thing also when pulling wrenches out of YYC and know of what you speak........

Ahhh the days of the short hop skip and a jump to Pink Mountain on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon. 😛

We pay way too much for gas/fuel.

I'm done here.

Cheers

R

 

[skullcap]

Hey Roscoe;

Did you know you can pick up FM radio from the top of Pink Mtn? The engineer and I would drive up in the evening after work and enjoy the view and listen to whatever station from Edmonton we could get. Was kind of nice come to think of it.

sc

Gotto go watch the beloved flames

 

[MagSeal]

Skullcap....that sounds so romantic.... 😀

 

[MagSeal]

oh by the way, the autobahn does have alot of areas with speed limits according to my instructor who was here in january who lives in germany. He says the unlimited areas are getting more and more scarce.
As for canada's highways, the majority of roads in northern alberta were always unrestricted for speeds as far as i was concerned. you could see the cops miles away, pretty much had ample time to throw it back a couple of gears and slow down to a more tolerable level of 120KM/h.