Question for Chip

us10

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Sep 11, 2002
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US Airways is facing estimated pension contributions of $1 billion in 2004 and $800 million in 2005 for its defined benefit plans. The pilot plan pension funding obligation alone is estimated to be $575 million for 2004 and $333 million for 2005. The Company can not make these payments, given its cash position. Additionally, it has indications from the ATSB and the ATSB will not approve its loan with these large pension obligations. The ATSB is requiring that US Airways develop a viable business plan for the 7-year ATSB loan period.
Chip,
The above is from the transcript of the Senate debate on the company's underfunded pensions.I don't get it!!The company has a combined 2004 and 2005 underfunding obligation of one billion 800 million.The pilots portion is about 908 million or about half.Why is the pilot pension threatened with termination and the other pensions which also require substantial refunding apparently safe or at least not in the spotlight?
I would appreciate any information you have on this subject.
 

Pacemaker

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Sep 3, 2002
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I don't know, maybe because the pilots' pension represents another Golden Ring for Dave to grab; besides ALPA has proven to be easy marks so far.
 

sdavis29

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Nov 13, 2002
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chip, [BR]couple of quick questions...[BR]1 how many pilots after cuts...i believe 3700 was the number[BR]how many hrs can be flown according to faa regulations..(monthly)[BR]how many hrs does a usairways pilot who holds a line fly a month (approx)[BR]thx[BR][BR][BR][BR][BR]
 
C

chipmunn

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US Airways Pension Percentage by Employee Group:

ALPA - 72%
IAM - 15%
AFA - 9%
Management/other - 4%

All pensions are at risk, not just ALPA's, but it is clear from the percentages above what employee group requires the greatest restoration funding.

Q. How many pilots after cuts? I believe 3700 was the number.
A. Dependent on voluntary leaves, military reserve activations, etc., I believe just less than 3,900.

Q. How many hrs can be flown according to faa regulations(monthly)?
A. Domestically 1000 hours per year or an average of 83.3 per month.

Q. How many hrs does a usairways pilot who holds a line fly a month (approx)?
A. Approximately 80, but most pilots seek full pay of 85 pay hours per month, whether hard and/or soft time combined.

Chip
 

GGpillow

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Aug 19, 2002
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Wouldn't vacation/sick time need to be factored into how many pilots you would need as well?

What is U's current average fleet utilization rate? I agree the 14hrs a day is high... just wondering how high.
 

sdavis29

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Nov 13, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/12/2003 12:11:03 AM GGpillow wrote:
[P] Wouldn't vacation/sick time need to be factored into how many pilots you would need as well?[BR][BR] What is U's current average fleet utilization rate? I agree the 14hrs a day is high... just wondering how high.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]it might be but that is ttl hours...including all the pilot group[BR]trans con flt 10hrs rt....min 1 hr turn...11 hrs..maybe 1 more flt...1 would guess closer to 11hrs...[BR]intl flt 8 hrs...overnite...so on[BR]i believe the number that was going around was 255-260 a/c on line at 1 time..so using these as reference the numbers get even bigger...[BR]i dont have exact numbers on this...so it is all guess work..but 19 yrs of working it should allow for some close guesses....[BR][BR][BR][/P]
 

sdavis29

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Nov 13, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 11:32:21 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]US Airways Pension Percentage by Employee Group:[BR][BR]ALPA - 72%[BR]IAM - 15%[BR]AFA - 9%[BR]Management/other - 4%[BR][BR]All pensions are at risk, not just ALPA's, but it is clear from the percentages above what employee group requires the greatest restoration funding.[BR][BR]Q. How many pilots after cuts? I believe 3700 was the number.[BR]A. Dependent on voluntary leaves, military reserve activations, etc., I believe just less than 3,900. [BR][BR]Q. How many hrs can be flown according to faa regulations(monthly)?[BR]A. Domestically 1000 hours per year or an average of 83.3 per month. [BR][BR]Q. How many hrs does a usairways pilot who holds a line fly a month (approx)?[BR]A. Approximately 80, but most pilots seek full pay of 85 pay hours per month, whether hard and/or soft time combined.[BR][BR]Chip [BR][BR] [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]thank you chip......numbers dont add up...[BR]assuming all 279 a/c flying...14hrs per day 30.5 days average month.ttl 119,133 hrs [BR]the 279 and 14hrs are unrealisticly high..[BR]using 3700 you actually have 1850 pairings...[BR]divided it out and you get 64.39 hrs.... [BR][BR]if you use 80 hrs...it works out to roughly 3000 ....that again is assuming all a/c flying and 14 hrs of flt time...neither of which will happen...[BR]just curious as to the numbers...[BR][BR][BR]thx again[BR][BR][BR]
 

GGpillow

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I don't disagree transcons and intl flights pile on a lot of hours, but, how many 737's do 45min-1hr sits 2-3-4 times a day? This would be the majority of your fleet, so would have the greatest impact on your fleet utilization would it not? I don't work for U, so I really am just curious. I don't know if your narrowbodies even sit for that long, perhaps they don't. Just wondering.
 

sdavis29

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[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/12/2003 12:49:28 AM GGpillow wrote:

I don't disagree transcons and intl flights pile on a lot of hours, but, how many 737's do 45min-1hr sits 2-3-4 times a day? This would be the majority of your fleet, so would have the greatest impact on your fleet utilization would it not? I don't work for U, so I really am just curious. I don't know if your narrowbodies even sit for that long, perhaps they don't. Just wondering.
----------------
[/blockquote]
737 as an example...dep syr 6a..arr phl 715..dep phl 8a arr orf 920 dep 10a arr phl 1115 dep 1200 arr roc 115 etc..
milk runs all day...term buf 2200...a/c on line 16 hrs
for every 1.25-1.5 flying .75 ground..estimate times but close
should make for about 10 segments...longer flts say phl-tpa
2.5 hrs..generally have at least 1hr turn. if 1 a/c flew this route all day it might squeeze in 5 segments..more like 4...

nearly imposssible to turn flts in under 45 mins...takes 15 mins to deplane and 15 to board...on average...maybe a little longer with 757/a321...


 

sdavis29

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[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/12/2003 5:03:23 PM real world wrote:

Not all 279 aircraft are active that inclues spares and mtce aircraft.
----------------
[/blockquote]
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/12/2003 5:03:23 PM real world wrote:

Not all 279 aircraft are active that inclues spares and mtce aircraft.
----------------
[/blockquote]
i know...so if you remove x amount of a/c from flying you should be able to remove x amount of hrs to fly them...


 

kiloromeo

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Jan 7, 2003
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I wonder how much ALPA gives to politicians? After all, I find it interesting that all these politicians going to bat for ALPA's pension is strange. After all, panam, Eastern etc pensions are a skeleton of what they were supposed to be. They should be working on more important things than trying to keep a bloated pension plan intact.

The reason the pilot pension is such a mess is because it was a hidden golden goose for ALPA. The poor equity markets and other investment vehicles that the pension depended on for such an absurd amount of money pay-out has revealed yet another lucrative agreement. Management gave ALPA that fat pension plan when the company had the proverbial ALPA "gun" to its head when negotiating contracts...I guess the company will do anything to avoid a strike. After all, how many companies (or industries) have about 4000 employees make VP's salaries along with such a massive pension (who cares about the measly 40 VPs US Airways has when they have 3,900 virtual VPs (pilots) in terms of salaries working on average about 48 hours per month).

The pension is going to be handed over to the government or stay with new company and be greatly reduced...either way it will be reduced.
 

kiloromeo

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Jan 7, 2003
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I wonder how much ALPA gives to politicians? After all, I find it interesting that all these politicians going to bat for ALPA's pension is strange. After all, panam, Eastern etc pensions are a skeleton of what they were supposed to be. They should be working on more important things than trying to keep a bloated pension plan intact.

The reason the pilot pension is such a mess is because it was a hidden golden goose for ALPA. The poor equity markets and other investment vehicles that the pension depended on for such an absurd amount of money pay-out has revealed yet another lucrative agreement. Management gave ALPA that fat pension plan when the company had the proverbial ALPA "gun" to its head when negotiating contracts...I guess the company will do anything to avoid a strike. After all, how many companies (or industries) have about 4000 employees make VP's salaries along with such a massive pension (who cares about the measly 40 VPs US Airways has when they have 3,900 virtual VPs (pilots) in terms of salaries working on average about 48 hours per month).

The pension is going to be handed over to the government or stay with new company and be greatly reduced...either way it will be reduced.
 

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