Readin'' the tea leaves

[High Iron]

Your opinion rings too true to be comfortable. While I''ve been more or less desensitized over the last year or so to the continually downward spiral, I nonetheless always sensed the other shoe hasn''t dropped. For every every statement/action this company makes that seems like they intend to keep US ( At even it''s present smaller size ) as a going concern, and that things will eventually work out...There seems to be twice the empirical evidence that the opposite is true.

Could be the refusal to state their intentions, for even a year down the road, may be just that reason. I mean, they wouldn''t want everyone to scuttle before they intend to pull the final plug.

 

[diogenes]

I have long been of the opinion we have not seen the worst yet.

What with Dave threatening PIT and CCY lately, and the comments stating we still aren''t saving enough money, and there needs to be greater management/labor ''cooperation'' (jeez, grabbing my ankles has become a Pavlovian response!), I feel the axe on the backswing.

Look for a fleet reduction this fall. Yeah, yeah, I know what the contracts say. It won''t matter. By the time it''s arbitrated, the game will be over. U is a master at running the clock out on the unions.

Look for massive layoffs/conversion to express.

Look for UA to increasingly take over U flying. I''m already noticing bag tags to destinations we once served, or only serve with express, now being routed via UA. I''ve also seen a recent increase in bags routed from CLT to SFO/LAX/SEA via ORD on UA, as opposed to the U non stops.

Look for the unions to do squat about it.

It''s gonna be a bumpy evening!

 

[PITbull]

I agree with both of the above threads. I too, have my "crystal ball" out.

The Corporate transaction will come to fruition, just as Chip Munn has repeatedly implied and stated.

But, one thing I can guarantee, if I'm going out, I'm not going without a fight to the end. I will make sure I take these "union busters" reputations as untrustworthy business men DOWN with me. They will be so notorious, that the public will think twice before ever dealing with these disingenuious, dishonorable, diabolical schemers any where they go.

Anyone heard from Lorenzo or Icann lately??????

 

[Mike W]

Guys,
Does this mean I shouldn''t go through with my displacement to DFW? WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[Mike W]

Tim,
I talked to the DFW manager yesterday and he said that someone from MKE who was supposed to go to DFW was now going to ORD.I''m sure he''s glad to be a lot closer to his home.

 

[gilbertguy]

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On 5/29/2003 3:38:02 PM Mike W wrote:

Guys,
Does this mean I shouldn''t go through with my displacement to DFW? WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

I just turned down my chance to go back to US in DFW....talk there is it is going ''express'' soon enough....I''ll stay out on vol furlough.....besides, it''s Texas......

 

[Tim Nelson]

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On 5/29/2003 3:38:02 PM Mike W wrote:

Guys,
Does this mean I shouldn''t go through with my displacement to DFW? WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

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Mike, I''m sure this is going to mean very little to you but regarding DFW, one worker who was awarded DFW last week with about 35 years isn''t going now.

Tim Nelson

 

[cavalier]

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On 5/29/2003 1:23:59 PM PITbull wrote:

I agree with both of the above threads. I too, have my "crystal ball" out.

The Corporate transaction will come to fruition, just as Chip Munn has repeatedly implied and stated.

But, one thing I can guarantee, if I''m going out, I''m not going without a fight to the end. I will make sure I take these "union busters" reputations as untrustworthy business men DOWN with me. They will be so notorious, that the public will think twice before ever dealing with these disingenuious, dishonorable, diabolical schemers any where they go.

Anyone heard from Lorenzo or Icann lately??????

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Funny you should mention these names above. I was thinking the SAME thing when I came upon this thread. I sat at one of Dave''s road shows and heard him say "WE WANT TO DO OUR OWN MAINTENANCE IN HOUSE". This guy is a prime example of a liar not afraid or caring that he is placing his name in history with the above mentioned names. Personally, I believe it''s not over in this world and when Mr. Dave faces his maker and is forced to look upon all the suffering his actions have caused thousands of families in the name of the dollar, he will pay a price that just is NOT worth the rewards he receives in this life. Of course the Daves of this world don’t believe this notion and simply pass it off as the nonsense of a raving fool, which is the only way they can live with themselves.

 

[Tim Nelson]

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On 5/29/2003 12:22:58 PM diogenes wrote:

I have long been of the opinion we have not seen the worst yet.

What with Dave threatening PIT and CCY lately, and the comments stating we still aren''t saving enough money, and there needs to be greater management/labor ''cooperation'' (jeez, grabbing my ankles has become a Pavlovian response!), I feel the axe on the backswing.

Look for a fleet reduction this fall. Yeah, yeah, I know what the contracts say. It won''t matter. By the time it''s arbitrated, the game will be over. U is a master at running the clock out on the unions.

Look for massive layoffs/conversion to express.

Look for UA to increasingly take over U flying. I''m already noticing bag tags to destinations we once served, or only serve with express, now being routed via UA. I''ve also seen a recent increase in bags routed from CLT to SFO/LAX/SEA via ORD on UA, as opposed to the U non stops.

Look for the unions to do squat about it.

It''s gonna be a bumpy evening!

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Lorenzo is still in the building.

I agree with you Diogenes about your future assessment. One thing I have been told by a reliable source is that the jet fleet will be 255 in September by way of ''french manure''. Even if the economy keeps picking up, Lorenzo[ism] will not leave as the union''s interest was accomadated with the increased headcount through the ''automatic recognition''. Sure, you will still have the CWA/IAM raising it on their web site, but in the end, it''s just smoke and mirrors from those jurassiclike unions.

At any rate, whether or not the IAM does squat about it, one thing is sure, with the IAM you will not have any control over what finally ends up. And that is a true tragedy for any working man or woman.

Tim Nelson

 

[delldude]

hows about we build up RJ and make mainline go away?i remember wolfe or someone threatening that back aways...if we didn''t get the merger they''d shrink us into a regional.
deja vu?

 

[cavalier]

Dave Siegel in this instance is not a liar! I''m sure he WANTS to do the work in-house, I am also sure he NEEDS to show a PROFIT to keep his job. There was no lie, just a failure to understand the difference between want and need and who benefits most.
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I appreciate the insight, but his intent is what matters and what integrity is. Business speak or spin, etc is a new package of the old terms such as lies, dishonesty, deceit etc with the end results being the same. The result for employees is total mistrust and resentment, not a good combination on which to lay a foundation of successful employee relations and company success which he was recently complaining about.

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[cavalier]

When you only hear what you want to hear, don''t be surprised that what you want is NOT what happens. There is no morality issue here! You should know better, what did your mom and dad tell you, "Believe have of what you hear and a quarter of what you read"? Sound advice then and now!
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Thanks for the kindergarten lesson Bob, but seems the union leaders took that statement exactly like I did and have already stated to Dave himself that we will walk
if airbus work is vendored. Making excuses, SPINNING it around to make Dave look good and everyone else stupid and expecting me to concur isn''t working Bob. That may well be your opinion and so be it, but many others, myself included, strongly disagree and will use our legs to prove it. It''s a sad testimony to today’s business leaders when honor and integrity are reduced to word games.


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[Twicebaked]

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On 5/30/2003 6:15:41 PM PineyBob wrote:


A better example for all of you, Car Leasing. You ask the Salesperson "Can I get out of this lease?" The correct answer is YES! You get out of the lease in this case by paying all of the payments! Did the salesman lie? NOPE! You asked the wrong question!!

The correct question was "Can I terminate the lease early?"The correct answer is. "NO you must pay all of the payments or roll it over into a new deal" Like it or don''t this is the way the world works! If you don''t ask the right questions, don''t expect to be happy with the answers.

When you only hear what you want to hear, don''t be surprised that what you want is NOT what happens. There is no morality issue here! You should know better, what did your mom and dad tell you, "Believe have of what you hear and a quarter of what you read"? Sound advice then and now!

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PineyBob,
You put the nail in your own coffin. The above examples are only proving that there WAS deceit in his answers. The latter should be YES, you can terminate the lease but you must pay for the entire lease or roll it over. There is NO deceit in that answer. All the facts are present. An honest decent person would say I want to do in house maint., but finacially I don''t know if it can be done. These is NO deceit in that answer. We not only heard what we wanted to hear, but what Dave wanted us to here. His answers at the road shows WERE AND ALWAYS WILL BE deceitful.

 

[cavalier]

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On 5/30/2003 852 AM PineyBob wrote:

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On 5/29/2003 4:28:43 PM cavalier wrote:




I sat at one of Dave''s road shows and heard him say "WE WANT TO DO OUR OWN MAINTENANCE IN HOUSE
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OK,
Let me provide a lesson in "Corporate Speak". I may not know squat on lots of topics posted here, but this kinda crap I live and breathe.

I will tell you that with very little fear of contradiction that Dave feels he didn''t lie on the above statement and here is why. He said he "WANTS" to do the work in-house. And I believe that he does. BUT, the economics of it are prohibitive. In this case in his mind at least the "WANT" to do the work in-house is overriden by the "NEED" to cut costs further!

And this is not a put down OK!! Hourly workers "in general" are much more literal in their interpretations of what people say versus what they mean. The concept of "spin" doesn''t really work for them. That''s why you have to listen carefully to ALL that''s said and not just the part you want to hear. Then break it down and figure out who wins and who loses, mindful of the fact that those with the least "marketability'' outside of a given industry will generally be the losers. When you teach yourself to think like them, then sifting through the BS becomes much easier.

Dave Siegel in this instance is not a liar! I''m sure he WANTS to do the work in-house, I am also sure he NEEDS to show a PROFIT to keep his job. There was no lie, just a failure to understand the difference between want and need and who benefits most.

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May 30, 2003

TO: US AIRWAYS MEMBERSHIP AFFILIATED WITH DISTRICT 141-M

Dear Sisters and Brothers:

District Lodge 141-M has informed US Airways CEO, David Siegel, that there will be NO outsourcing of heavy maintenance.

Our US Airways Scope Clause does not provide the latitude for any such work to be sent to any outside vendor.

Indeed, during months of discussions leading to the concessionary agreement with District 141-M members, not once did US Airways negotiators discuss any changes to our contract that would allow any such outsourcing.

If any attempt is made to OSV heavy maintenance work US Airways will find themselves in the fight of their lives.

US Airways should not believe their labor unions and our memberships’ cooperation and loyalty during the bankruptcy and recovery was a sign of weakness.

What that cooperation and loyalty showed is that our membership is much better at making decisions than many of those residing in “Ivory Towersâ€￾.

Sincerely and fraternally,

Scotty Ford
President & Directing General Chairman

 

[cavalier]

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On 5/30/2003 8:57:11 PM PineyBob wrote:


Sales and the law are nothing more than "Word Games" Two very large pieces of our modern day life. People hear what they want to hear. Other people exploit that! Pure and simple! that''s why there are courts to sort out the high stakes "word Games" and that is where some of these issues will end up. By the time they wind there way through the courts many of the original parties will be long gone from their current positions which is what US is counting on most likely. Boxing is a gentlemanly sport compared to modern day business. and like the refs say before every bout "Protect yourself at all times"

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That is exactly why people of faith believe these are indeed the end times...that aside; What I believe Dave and gang are banking on is a labor force that will once again bend out of fear, wrong this time around. People still holding their job are in places they don''t want to be, they are fed up with the constant uncertainty, the never ending bad news, the firings of co-workers over minor infractions, the third degree heard when requesting a day off or taking a sick day, the rumor mills pouring out horror stories of even more massive layoffs around the corner. All this unsettling news after giving away what took years of grief to gain. So people being people are tweaked plus a few notches beyond human design limits. Legal or illegal, right or wrong, people will either walk or work safe which will shut down this fragile airline, until either upper management becomes reasonable or the airline fails completely. Think it can’t or won’t happen, think again! I work with these people and can feel the thick nasty atmosphere created by our new leadership. One thing I can say this leadership is doing fair is spreading their threats and demands around evenly including powerful politicians who are not accustomed to such treatment.
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