Regional Jet Decline?

[ITRADE]

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On 4/24/2003 1203 PM tug_slug wrote:


Excuse me, but isn''t the "rj revolution" just *ONE* of the reasons why the pay at most major airlines has dropped?

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Maybe. But so to are about a hundred other reasons including, but not limited to:

the existence of turbo props
the events of 9-11
the price of fuel
the requirements of Stage III noise regulations
the preferences of passengers
the efforts/disefforts of management
the efforts/disefforts of work groups

 

[CLIPPEDWINGS]

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On 4/24/2003 12:59:23 PM pitguy74 wrote:

We did''nt paint them, we jsut parked them----------------​

You are right on that one.....

 

[CLIPPEDWINGS]

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On 4/24/2003 11:58:17 AM cat 111 wrote:

Don''t forget Wolfie put the paint jobs on hold for awhile.His $6o/per share merger backfired on him.Oh well,the united colors almost matched.

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LOL...It seems to me now Wolfie wasn''t quite that bad. You have to weigh it out....Wolf or Siegel......Saddam or Osama. Both are bad, but which is worse. My opinion is Siegel is worse.

 

[exagony]

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On 4/24/2003 2:36:32 PM mrman wrote:


I thought AirTran only flew DC-9''s and 717

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Nope, AirWiskey flys RJs for them.

 

[mrman]

I thought AirTran only flew DC-9''s and 717

 

[exagony]

This is great news for the WO''s. Now instead of getting RJs, they''ll be getting Airbuses! They can do it cheaper and already are used to being abused!

 

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

Now, "with mainline labor expenses expected to fall by 20%-30% over the next two years and with Regional pay unlikely to match, the marginal appeal of continued Regional growth is quickly diminishing.


But, on the other hand, what if mainline labor expenses fall by over 50% (mainline express)?

INVOL

 

[DakotaHC8]

The article that this line of posts was based upon does not make sense. The so called expert clamied that Mainline costs had decreased while there have been no such reductions at the regional level...

Oh really...?

I beg to differ, and i would suggest that the author of the article research the issue further beore excepting such a premise. I for one now make 20% less than I did pre 9/11, and I consider myself lucky to have not been downgraded or worse furloughed. My pilot group has had to accept stiff concessions and work rules changes without the financial returns associated with the mainline pilot agreement.

And it only promises to get worse as piots at (profitable) outfits such as Mesa airlines trade concessions in return for accelerated growth at almost all other pilot groups'' loss. They cut their costs to undercut other regional and mainline pilot groups. This creates additional downward pressure on all pilot groups to defend our own jobs.

So the whole idea that regional cost structures are no longer cheaper than our mainline counterparts toady is incorrect, all US Airways Group employee groups suffer the same nowadays while the outside contractors our management utilized instead continue to grow and profit.

There is a difference between express carriers, trust me. And the more people understand our situation at the wholly owneds they will see that it is exactly the same as what mainline deals with as well.

Thank you

 

[DakotaHC8]

It would still not be enough to come close. Although i understand your fustration at the whole "mainline express" deal, it still pales in comparison to the dramatic change involved with a station being transferred to express.

Staffing levels alone between a mainline operation working expres flights and an actual express station are completly different. Not to mention, you still get paid based upon years of service, Most express station employees start with a brand new date of hire rate, and substantially less benifits.

When you throw in the different level of work required of the express employees... Our flight attendants have to store the catering supplies and clean the cabin themselves between flights for example... You begin to see the difference in overhead associated between an "express" and a "mainline express" operation.

I understand and appriacite your situation, but even the dramatic concessions you speak of still have only stemmed the tide of change facing our station network. I once again poiint out that the premise of the article is flawed, esp. iin the case of US Airways.

 

[WO/drone]

I have seen two different 737s in the old USAir livery this week on a PIT/MDT route.

 

[CLIPPEDWINGS]

I see dead people!!!!.........lol
WO/drone...I am sorry..I am laughing because I know why you said that but many probably don''t. I made the statements many threads back about the paint jobs. There was no quote of what I said with your reply. It even confused me for a minute and I said it.

 

[Rob]

The only people consistently negative about rj''s seem to be ALPA members. They have a legitimate role in the fleet and make good economic sense on thin routes.

The analyst mentioned in the first post of this thread is pretty new to the business.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

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On 4/25/2003 134 AM Rob wrote:

The only people consistently negative about rj''s seem to be ALPA members. They have a legitimate role in the fleet and make good economic sense on thin routes.



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DING DING DING -- this is the correct answer.

RJs are an absolute value on thousands of routes, and they can make a pretty good penny too. I''ve paid $800+ to fly on a RJ and the plane was full. Couldn''t stand up straight in the damned thing and the only f/a looked like she was still in high school, but that airline sure made money!

Even Boeing believes the future is "smaller, cheaper, more frequent" as they are once again betting the company on the 7E7.

 

[gilbertguy]

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On 4/24/2003 3:49:13 PM W:EXCH:INVOL wrote:

Now, "with mainline labor expenses expected to fall by 20%-30% over the next two years and with Regional pay unlikely to match, the marginal appeal of continued Regional growth is quickly diminishing.


But, on the other hand, what if mainline labor expenses fall by over 50% (mainline express)?

INVOL

Regional growth to diminish.....tell that to Mesa Air....received first of 25 CRJ-900''....80 seaters....start flying on Sunday!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

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On 4/24/2003 8:17:26 AM mga707 wrote:

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On 4/24/2003 7:46:22 AM WSurf wrote:

I agree, the Q400 would be great. Any stage length thats 500 miles or less can be done at the same time as a jet. Can haul 78 pax and if its anything like the other Dash''s it would be a great workhouse. However it has those to props out there, and American folks just DON''T LIKE PROPS ON PLANES (there for boats).


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Easy solution--simply call them "JET POWERED Dashers" and most of the public won''t even notice the props.
Worked back in the ''60s with Electras and F-27s, and the public certainly isn''t any smarter, aviation-wise, than it was then...

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I must agree with Surf. Many times I bussed out to a waiting Dash in PHL with passengers who just couldn''t believe they had to get on an "old prop plane." They probably arrived in an ancient, ragged-out DC-9 with 1960''s technology, and will leave in a state-of-the-art propjet that hasn''t been out of the factory for more than a month or two. You would likely have to ante up two dozen of those old -9''s to buy one of the Dash''s, but that makes NO DIFFERENCE at all to these experts. If it has props, it has to be old and outdated.