Republic could be short pilots
- Thread starter JayBrian
- Start date
Great, so Republic may have to "reduce thier US Airways operation"?
Still thousands of US Airways pilots and F/As on the street, many who were flying those same airplanes two years ago before they were outsourced to Republic. Put those planes back at mainline with the 190 where they should be.
Still thousands of US Airways pilots and F/As on the street, many who were flying those same airplanes two years ago before they were outsourced to Republic. Put those planes back at mainline with the 190 where they should be.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
- Messages
- 2,627
- Reaction score
- 945
I hope all regionals run out of pilots. The sooner the better.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
I don't have any idea what the flight attendant numbers are, but ALL of the furloughed pilots have been given their first chance of recall and now that the recalls are coming from the bottom up (with no right of refusal this time) all but a few hundred (if that) are back on the property, have a class date, or have resigned.
At long last, the pilot shortage that's been "just around the corner" (for over twenty years) is finally here. Time to start looking for the regional operators to start whining that the laws should be changed to allow foreign nationals to fly their airplanes.
It's coming. Count on it.
At long last, the pilot shortage that's been "just around the corner" (for over twenty years) is finally here. Time to start looking for the regional operators to start whining that the laws should be changed to allow foreign nationals to fly their airplanes.
It's coming. Count on it.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,513
- Reaction score
- 0
It's already here. And Richard Branson is leading the charge. What do you hear from ALPA? NADA, ZERO, ZILCH!!
Heard from a friend at PSA. Classes have F/O's going through training with 300 hours total time. At least they are maintaining standards. A class of 8 graduated 1.
Managements wanted this? Who in their right mind would spend $75-100,000 to learn to fly. Then take a job at a regional carrier that has no career path, no retirement and absolutely the worst working conditions? And now those same managements are hiring the few flight instructors that would be training those future new pilots. Gonna be a mess.
And ALPA is wasting it's time "Taking it Back". What a joke!!!
exB717Flyer
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 1,106
- Reaction score
- 599
ALPA lobbied to prevent the DOT from granting Virgin America an operating certificate. Just curious, but if you were the ALPA President what exactly would you be doing to fix all the ills of the industry you point out?. Be realistic, not idealistic. Furthermore, exactly how would a new, small, splinter union (ie, USAPA) accomplish anything more for the industry? Keep in mind that even the APA at American laments its lack of influence in DC.
I'm not being an ALPA apologist; just a realist. The concessionary contracts of the last six years would've happened to any union. If new pilot starts are down due to this career being less attractive that's the industry's problem to solve; not ALPA's. I'm just looking for pragmatic solutions instead of chest-thumping rhetoric. I don't have any solutions.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2003
- Messages
- 8,584
- Reaction score
- 7,430
I'ld read the history of what pilots did to start ALPA. And I wouldn't do it while sipping umbrella drinks at the Resort and Spa along with my 500K phoney baloney salary. <_<
exB717Flyer
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 1,106
- Reaction score
- 599
I asked for real solutions and not meaningless rhetoric. This isn't the '30s.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,513
- Reaction score
- 0
ALPA has lobbied for many things in the past and carries absolutely no weight with Congress. So why bother? You don't want me running ALPA as President because I would have the whole industry out on a SOS. But then maybe we need one to show how much power we really have. I would have done it over deregulation, crew screenings,(ie Like Canada) or drug and alcohol testing, lost retirements, flight time duty time regs, one group goes out on strike, we all go. Just like a union should. I know there are laws preventing some of these things, but when was the last time an ALPA leader went to jail in support of his pilots?
We know what ALPA has done nationally for the group as a whole. It has done even less for the individual. Might as well get a new union on board that cares more about the pilots its representing than perpetuating a dinosaur interested in only itself. And you don't want me running USAPA either. I would have told Jerry Glass to cram his offers years ago where the sun don't shine. But then thats me. I guess I would have been a better NWA pilot. They used to strike at anything. But until someone stands up for the individual pilot, we'll just get more of the same.
So tying this up, the ALPA structure and framework does not promote unity. One pilots pain is another ones gain. Randy Babbitt was a classic example. His tenure was all about saving ALPA. When one airline had a problem (Eastern), he cut the problem loose while the rest gained. If ALPA is incapable of promoting unity among the members, why not have a unified local pilot group offsetting corrupt managements. It's criminal that Stephen Wolf could come in here and get a 30 year guaranteed retirement and $30m plus severence for 4 years of work. What did ALPA do, we'll write you a letter expressing our outrage!! Oh boy, managements scared now. It's time to take it back. How about a one day national SOS just to show the industry we are capable of it. Think that will get managements attention? 60,000 pilots walk for better pay, benefits, working conditions, retirements. Not a bad start.
Sorry, kind of ranting, enough said. :angry:
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,513
- Reaction score
- 0
I don't wish harm on any body. By destroying the golden goose (mainlines) Managements with ALPA's tacit approval, have started down the path to the way it was in the middle '60's. Hiring flight engineers with zero flight time. With promises of paying for flight training and licenses. Oops are there any engineers out there anymore? So I guess thats out. I had an instructor at Gulfstream in SAV who was in that program. It was a crock. So guess what? Mainline or trunk carrier pay improved dramatically, and no more hiring low or no time engineers. The law of supply and demand.
Some commuter starting pay was $500 a month. The goal for putting up with that, was to get to a major. Everybody wanted to get on with a major. So commuter managements could get away with that kind of BS. Don't like it? Find another job. There used to be adds in Trade-A-Plane in the late '70's.......Will pay you to fly your turboprop. Sigh... That was the business. By then everybody wanted a job in aviation.
It looks like we've come full circle again. History once again repeats itself. Time to take it back, just don't count on ALPA to help unless it serves their best interest.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2002
- Messages
- 2,123
- Reaction score
- 1
Is this possible? Could this be a default by Republic on the deal that Parker, reportedly supposedly, doesn't like?
If so, could LCC strike some sort of arrangement to get out of it: say get some percentage of the aircraft back and all the slots, in exchange for Republic retaining some aircraft? Does LCC have the ability to staff these aircraft any quicker than Republic? hmmmmmmm
exB717Flyer
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 1,106
- Reaction score
- 599
Because if for no other reason, if ALPA failed to lobby. the membership (like you) would be up in arms over its failure to do everything possible!
This I agree with. Unlike a powerful union like the Longshoremen, ALPA members are direct competitors with each other. So would a practical solution be for every airline to have its own union? And if so, how does that fit in with the "strength in numbers" mantra of unionism? This is why I paraphrase Churchill by saying, "ALPA is the worst pilot union in the world -- except for all the rest." Having been a member of the IBT, APA, and ALPA at three different carriers I can tell you that they're all equally screwed-up and you're drawing aircastles if you think you can improve your QOL by dumping ALPA.
I too wish ALPA would grow a pair sometimes but in the end I think larger influences like the economy and the government are what really effects our lot in life. You mentioned NWA, whose pilots have been more militant than most others. What has it gotten them? Today their contract is poop and they're at war with management. Contrast that with the DAL pilots who came out of bankruptcy smelling like roses. In both cases I feel the pilots' actions ultimately had little to do with the outcome. DAL was a stronger company so its pilots benefitted. Our fortunes ultimately rise and fall with our employers.
Yes, that'll get management's attention. It'll also get the attention of Congress. Recall that the RLA hasn't been substantially revised in decades. In today's environment to whose benefit do you think Congress would act? Have you not noticed the public's general apathy if not antipathy towards labor? When the APA showed some balls they ended up with a $45 million fine (note: it wasn't the sickout but their failure to end the sickout on a judge's order that elicited the fine). They ultimately paid AMR half that fine and negotiated away the rest in a concessionary contract. Many of them still claim it was a victory. (If Saddam were alive he'd still be claiming victory as well.)
I'm angry too but I like to think that after I've settled down I act rationally and pragmatically. ALPA screwed the TWA pilots yet I'm now a dues-paying member. I simply recognize that to protest by being a non-member would not benefit me nor anyone else. When the APA took over from ALPA I dispassionately joined them immediately despite them screwing us. I knew that throwing stones from the outside would do no good. Some of my colleagues called me a traitor and worse. Funny thing is, five years later as ex-TWAers are getting recalled to AA they've now realized the only way to fight the APA is from within. I can't claim to be prescient about many things but in this case I certainly was. I wasn't smarter than they were; I was just less emotional. And I still am today.
