Bush Bunny
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I heard a rumour that the forces will look at guys with heli time as reservists, is this the case? And if it is, what are the requirements and terms?
Thanks
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Reserve Heli Drivers?
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donnybrook
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I can offer what I have but it's not written in stone. The entry program is called the HELICOP program. The places to be are Borden, St Hubert, and Edmonton, though there are reservists elsewhere. There is an hour requirement but it changes with what you read. Between 100 and 500. Instrument rating would help. Medical standards are not quite as high. A google search will turn up some stuff. The CF is not currently hiring under the HELICOP program, which strikes me as odd...
The HELICOP program is a good one but the CAF has been burned by civy pilots using it to get experience and then pulling the pin once they get what they need out of the system. That being said the CAF also gets a warm body for those years that has come in as a qualified pilot so I think the argument is more sour grapes on the "management" side of things.
With HELICOP, candidates must all go through Basic Officer Training Camp (BOTC) or Boot Camp in lovely St Jean PQ. I'm not so sure about the french lingo training but I don't think that it is a requirement for HELICOP. Still the time and money spent on BOTC all feeds into the equation. Add to this equation the fact that many recently - last 5-7 years - retirees are looking hard at re-joining the CAF as their civy jobs have either dissapeared or they have been down-sized into jobs that pay less money than what the "stews" and groundcrews are getting. These pilots are still considered qualified 32As (CAF desig for pilot) that only need a quickie course and they are back in the cockpit and filling a billet for the CAF, ie no boot camp or extended training program required. Unfortunately for HELICOP applicants many of these ex-mil pilots live relatively close to the Squadrons that used to actively search out HELICOP pilots so the billets that may have been reserved for a HELICOP pilot can now be effectively filled by an ex-mil pilot looking for a place to weather out the storm on the civy airline front. What the CAF is not doing is looking into the future for when the airlines turn the proverbial corner and they need to re-hire all of these ex-mil / ex-civy pilots. These pilots are only tied to the CAF for three (3) years by which time the airlines SHOULD be well into a recovery / expansion mode. Air Canada is already seriously looking at 90 RJs (if you can believe the announced contract) and the rumour is that approximately 8 747s may join the fleet as well. All of that equals a large number of jobs and added to that is the continued expansion of West Jet, JetsGo, CanJet, etc.
Not trying to rain on your parade, just giving you some facts. The best way to find out about HELICOP would be to call a Squadron close to you and find out if they sponsor the HELICOP program and if there are any openings. CFB Borden close to Barrie, Ontario is one that has it's own 206 in order to run a Basic Helicopter training program so you don't have to go away again after BOTC for more training. CFB (?) St Hubert just south of Montreal is another and I believe that they have a training 206 as well. The helicopter Squadron in Edmonton is another that has had HELICOP pilots on strength. Some HELICOP pilots have even wangled their way into the fixed wing stream but that is definitely not the norm. Other Squadrons around the country also have reservists working for them but I don't know if any of them are HELICOP pilots or just ex-mil types that have signed up on a reserve contract.
Again if you can believe the hype the recent round of briefings to line pilots in the CAF has stated that retention is no longer an issue. Stats can be manipulated to show whatever the boss wants. Another avenue to you, should you want to make the commitment, is to join the CAF outright. The training timeline is similar to HELICOP (OK maybe a little more drawn out but relatively close), and you are not fully committed to the CAF / CF until you actually earn your wings. A full time Captain in the CAF these days makes close to $90K + flying pay + excellent benefits and pension, I think that as a newbie in the civilian sector you would be hard pressed to find a deal as good as that - MHO only.
Best of luck.
With HELICOP, candidates must all go through Basic Officer Training Camp (BOTC) or Boot Camp in lovely St Jean PQ. I'm not so sure about the french lingo training but I don't think that it is a requirement for HELICOP. Still the time and money spent on BOTC all feeds into the equation. Add to this equation the fact that many recently - last 5-7 years - retirees are looking hard at re-joining the CAF as their civy jobs have either dissapeared or they have been down-sized into jobs that pay less money than what the "stews" and groundcrews are getting. These pilots are still considered qualified 32As (CAF desig for pilot) that only need a quickie course and they are back in the cockpit and filling a billet for the CAF, ie no boot camp or extended training program required. Unfortunately for HELICOP applicants many of these ex-mil pilots live relatively close to the Squadrons that used to actively search out HELICOP pilots so the billets that may have been reserved for a HELICOP pilot can now be effectively filled by an ex-mil pilot looking for a place to weather out the storm on the civy airline front. What the CAF is not doing is looking into the future for when the airlines turn the proverbial corner and they need to re-hire all of these ex-mil / ex-civy pilots. These pilots are only tied to the CAF for three (3) years by which time the airlines SHOULD be well into a recovery / expansion mode. Air Canada is already seriously looking at 90 RJs (if you can believe the announced contract) and the rumour is that approximately 8 747s may join the fleet as well. All of that equals a large number of jobs and added to that is the continued expansion of West Jet, JetsGo, CanJet, etc.
Not trying to rain on your parade, just giving you some facts. The best way to find out about HELICOP would be to call a Squadron close to you and find out if they sponsor the HELICOP program and if there are any openings. CFB Borden close to Barrie, Ontario is one that has it's own 206 in order to run a Basic Helicopter training program so you don't have to go away again after BOTC for more training. CFB (?) St Hubert just south of Montreal is another and I believe that they have a training 206 as well. The helicopter Squadron in Edmonton is another that has had HELICOP pilots on strength. Some HELICOP pilots have even wangled their way into the fixed wing stream but that is definitely not the norm. Other Squadrons around the country also have reservists working for them but I don't know if any of them are HELICOP pilots or just ex-mil types that have signed up on a reserve contract.
Again if you can believe the hype the recent round of briefings to line pilots in the CAF has stated that retention is no longer an issue. Stats can be manipulated to show whatever the boss wants. Another avenue to you, should you want to make the commitment, is to join the CAF outright. The training timeline is similar to HELICOP (OK maybe a little more drawn out but relatively close), and you are not fully committed to the CAF / CF until you actually earn your wings. A full time Captain in the CAF these days makes close to $90K + flying pay + excellent benefits and pension, I think that as a newbie in the civilian sector you would be hard pressed to find a deal as good as that - MHO only.
Best of luck.
Vortex Ring
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Bush Bunny I was directly involved with HELICOP selection and training for several years.
Great program but unfortunately not everyone in the Air Force believes this or completely understands the Reserves. As for guys taking their ratings and going off to work......duh....that's what it is all about. This does not "burn" the Air Force although many who do not understand Reservists think it does.
A Reservist is one who has a life outside of the Forces, just because guys took a 412 endorsement and an IFR rating and got a job it did not mean we lost him or her for ever. I always encouraged them to feel free to seek employment anywhere and to know that our doors were always open for them to come back. This created a much more open relationship and pilots knew they were welcome and that we understood they were Reservists, not Regular Force. Nowdays most Reservists are very loyal to their units and as we proved at 408 Sqn many of them stick around and deploy overseas with the unit. Several of those pilots read this forum too.
With our current shortage of pilots I can't fathom why we would not be hiring HELICOP pilots and if we are not using HELICOP right now it is not the Recruiting Centres who block it but individual units. Check with the Squadron directly that you are interested in, they control how many folks they hire, NOT the Recruiting Centres. Visit the unit, get to know some of the drivers there, ask to meet a Reservist who came in through HELICOP and you will get much more up to date info.
DO NOT ASSUME THE RECRUITING CENTRES KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HELICOP----THEY DON'T----they simply process the applicants that Reserve units send them. Nearly every time we sent a HELICOP applicant to the Recruiting Centre to be processed we had to step by step explain how and why we were hiring this person and how to screen them. Believe me, I lived it and although the process was painful we successfully hired many pilots but it all comes from the units themselves.
As stated by Mark Dip, the current units with Jet Rangers to train pilots are all 1Wing Tactical Helicopter units flying Griffons (Bell 412s). There is 438 Squadron in Montreal and 400 Squadron in Borden are all Reserves (85%) and 408 Squadron in Edmonton is Reserve Heavy (40%). Don't be shy if you don't have their phone numbers, each unit will have a Recruiter and most importantly ask to speak to a pilot, they will gladly oblige.
Just like anywhere else it's all attitude. Reserves are a true asset to the military and managed properly they give us a much stronger reach and flexibility. So even if a squadron isn't hiring pilots this winter, doesn't mean they won't be able to put one or two through next summer/fall. Keep at it, it really does work and is a great way to get into a larger IFR capable helo which will lead to great job opportunities in the real world.
My 2 cents.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Great program but unfortunately not everyone in the Air Force believes this or completely understands the Reserves. As for guys taking their ratings and going off to work......duh....that's what it is all about. This does not "burn" the Air Force although many who do not understand Reservists think it does.
A Reservist is one who has a life outside of the Forces, just because guys took a 412 endorsement and an IFR rating and got a job it did not mean we lost him or her for ever. I always encouraged them to feel free to seek employment anywhere and to know that our doors were always open for them to come back. This created a much more open relationship and pilots knew they were welcome and that we understood they were Reservists, not Regular Force. Nowdays most Reservists are very loyal to their units and as we proved at 408 Sqn many of them stick around and deploy overseas with the unit. Several of those pilots read this forum too.
With our current shortage of pilots I can't fathom why we would not be hiring HELICOP pilots and if we are not using HELICOP right now it is not the Recruiting Centres who block it but individual units. Check with the Squadron directly that you are interested in, they control how many folks they hire, NOT the Recruiting Centres. Visit the unit, get to know some of the drivers there, ask to meet a Reservist who came in through HELICOP and you will get much more up to date info.
DO NOT ASSUME THE RECRUITING CENTRES KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HELICOP----THEY DON'T----they simply process the applicants that Reserve units send them. Nearly every time we sent a HELICOP applicant to the Recruiting Centre to be processed we had to step by step explain how and why we were hiring this person and how to screen them. Believe me, I lived it and although the process was painful we successfully hired many pilots but it all comes from the units themselves.
As stated by Mark Dip, the current units with Jet Rangers to train pilots are all 1Wing Tactical Helicopter units flying Griffons (Bell 412s). There is 438 Squadron in Montreal and 400 Squadron in Borden are all Reserves (85%) and 408 Squadron in Edmonton is Reserve Heavy (40%). Don't be shy if you don't have their phone numbers, each unit will have a Recruiter and most importantly ask to speak to a pilot, they will gladly oblige.
Just like anywhere else it's all attitude. Reserves are a true asset to the military and managed properly they give us a much stronger reach and flexibility. So even if a squadron isn't hiring pilots this winter, doesn't mean they won't be able to put one or two through next summer/fall. Keep at it, it really does work and is a great way to get into a larger IFR capable helo which will lead to great job opportunities in the real world.
My 2 cents.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
With manning levels in both the regular force and reserve force being so low I believe that anything is open to negotiations. A degree is still a requirement for an officer in the CF but just recently they have re-opened an avenue that will allow an "un-educated" person to enter the regular force flying program as long as they agree to get educated within a certain number of years, 7 I do believe but don't quote me on that. I'm not sure if the reserves were ever ahrd and fast with the degree rule but as I wrote above it is a buyer's market out there, at least for the forseeable future.
Just talked to the recruiter at 400 Tactical Helicopter Squadron in Borden Ontario. He said that they are still actively looking for HeliCop applicants and are quite happy with the two that they currently have - a York/Peel cop helo driver and a RCMP helo driver - but would like to have at least one more. They are currently getting ready to submit their selections to a board that has the final say on who gets the open spots. The board sits in 2-3 weeks so the Sqn would like to have everybody interviewed in the next week or so. Still some time to give them a call: (705) 424-1200 is CFB Borden's switchboard just follow the prompts or wait for a person and ask for the 400 Squadron Orderly room then they will be able to direct you to the recruiting officer for the Squadron (Captain Niewiadomsky)
Minimum requiremements on paper are 100 hrs helicopter.
What the CAF is looking for, and getting, is pilots with 500 hrs rotary and some experience (obviously) in the civy helo world. As well what they want is someone who can come in regularly (as the two cop pilots in Borden can easily do in between civy shifts) or someone who will be there for 6 months at a time after a summer of fighting fires or hauling drills. If you fit the bill and are willing to put up with a bit of military bureaucracy then this may be an ideal part time or off season job.
The Sqn is a good one with lots of latitude in what gets done and they do all of their training in house with a leased Jet Ranger and a full Operational Training Unit for the BH-412 (Griphon) minus the simulator.
Good luck.
Minimum requiremements on paper are 100 hrs helicopter.
What the CAF is looking for, and getting, is pilots with 500 hrs rotary and some experience (obviously) in the civy helo world. As well what they want is someone who can come in regularly (as the two cop pilots in Borden can easily do in between civy shifts) or someone who will be there for 6 months at a time after a summer of fighting fires or hauling drills. If you fit the bill and are willing to put up with a bit of military bureaucracy then this may be an ideal part time or off season job.
The Sqn is a good one with lots of latitude in what gets done and they do all of their training in house with a leased Jet Ranger and a full Operational Training Unit for the BH-412 (Griphon) minus the simulator.
Good luck.
Vortex Ring
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Now that's more like it. 408 in Edmonton would be very similar.
The min 500 hours is very flexible depending on individual background and NO, you do not need a degree as a Reservist.
The min 500 hours is very flexible depending on individual background and NO, you do not need a degree as a Reservist.
Bush Bunny
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Thanks for the info guys, it's certainly something I've been looking hard at. Not just to get the time or endorsements, but to be exposed to that type of flying and give some service.
I am new to rotary but have several thousand hours in FW, ATPL's in two countries and everything from Arctic bush, to tropical IFR time. I'm certainly going to look into this further and see what there is to offer.
Thanks again,
BB
I am new to rotary but have several thousand hours in FW, ATPL's in two countries and everything from Arctic bush, to tropical IFR time. I'm certainly going to look into this further and see what there is to offer.
Thanks again,
BB
helicopper
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victor romeo... your word "painful" is an extremely charitable description of a process i've been engaged in since '99!! :angry: :wacko: :huh:
i am, however, true to my motto below.
😉
i am, however, true to my motto below.
😉
R22Captain
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anyone on here involved with the reserves in Borden?
frenchwrench
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I did basic training there in BOTC.
I would think 100 hrs is no where near the min..I have seen guys with a few thousand hrs squeek by each phase during clear hood ..I showed several guys the circuit (they had 10,000 plus) and they had trouble and thought the excercise was nuts..But I found that practicing cross countries in a car helped.and being very precise when steering the car,No moving the wheel every half a second,but make a correction and wait to see what happens. trouble is if you start in the fall,etc then you need to work throught the following busy season,and I lost too much moolah so had to get out till the finances got sorted..
I would think 100 hrs is no where near the min..I have seen guys with a few thousand hrs squeek by each phase during clear hood ..I showed several guys the circuit (they had 10,000 plus) and they had trouble and thought the excercise was nuts..But I found that practicing cross countries in a car helped.and being very precise when steering the car,No moving the wheel every half a second,but make a correction and wait to see what happens. trouble is if you start in the fall,etc then you need to work throught the following busy season,and I lost too much moolah so had to get out till the finances got sorted..
