Scabs

[keeptheodds]

quote=Hopeful,Aug 18 2005, 03:11 PM
I would like to ask all potential SCABS if they truly believe that NWA will continue the "promised" wages and benefits long after the strike?


I don't think you understand how the contract world works. Every contract we go on is temporary. We do not expect it to last at all after the strike and there are no benefits. The shortest conrtract I've been on was two weeks the longest was ten months the contract was still good I just chose to leave. I've heard of guys spending two to three years on contracts. My point here is we go to where the work is if you dont like it you leave. Just simply call your contract company and request another contract. Check out Aviation Employment.com.

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Birdman,Aug 18 2005, 04:08 PM
KTO, I believe this misguided quest of yours to rid society of unionism is simply a smokescreen. Your true mission is to obtain the almighty buck by any means, without moral compass. Your the Judas Iscariot of aviation, betraying a profession of men and women, who happen to be union members, toiling to insure a safe flying experience for millions. Only union members, not you, have a right to decide if their affiliation with organized labor is flawed.

Birdman, I'm not on a quest to rid the world of unions, just when given the opportunity to assist in fighting one I take it. Yes, I do expect to get paid for my services I sure wouldn't do this for free. I have a friend that works for a company that about 60% of its employees are union he is not member nor does he want to have any thing to do with the union but he has to pay union dues to be employed there. He negotiated his own pay and benefits without any union involvement. So why is he paying union dues? If they were to go on strike he wouldn't strike. He also tells that there is a big difference between union workers and non-union workers production and attitudes.


Sorry Birdman all todays unions are good for is giving your union executives a means to steal your money and laugh all the way to the bank. Not to mention the damage they do in keeping a company from operating at its full potential. If you don't think unionized labor is flawed you are a fool to no end.

 

[Hopeful]

quote=Birdman,Aug 18 2005, 04:08 PM
KTO,  I believe this misguided quest of yours to rid society of unionism is simply a smokescreen. Your true mission is to obtain the almighty buck by any means, without moral compass.  Your the Judas Iscariot of aviation, betraying a profession of men and women, who happen to be union members, toiling to insure a safe flying experience for millions. Only union members, not you, have a right to decide if  their affiliation with organized labor is flawed.

Birdman, I'm not on a quest to rid the world of unions, just when given the opportunity to assist in fighting one I take it. Yes, I do expect to get paid for my services I sure wouldn't do this for free. I have a friend that works for a company that about 60% of its employees are union he is not member nor does he want to have any thing to do with the union but he has to pay union dues to be employed there. He negotiated his own pay and benefits without any union involvement. So why is he paying union dues? If they were to go on strike he wouldn't strike. He also tells that there is a big difference between union workers and non-union workers production and attitudes.
Sorry Birdman all  todays unions are good for is giving your union executives a means to steal your money and laugh all the way to the bank. Not to mention the damage they do in keeping a company from operating at its full potential. If you don't think unionized labor is flawed you are a fool to no end.

[post="289400"][/post]​

So, KTO, I guess you dont mind spreading your ass cheeks for greedy company executives?

Why not just negotiate a minimum wage for yourself and have a job for life!

It is because of the history of unions that decent wages and benefits exist!

 

[Birdman]

KTO, your in serious denial and still don't know Jack. I've been on agency fee for over five years now and have major problems with industrial unions, non-productivity, and union busting guns for hire like yourself. If you had done any research on my past postings (since Nov. 93') you wouldn't be going off on me half cocked. NEVER cross a picket line. BTW, are all your friends scabs?

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Hopeful,Aug 18 2005, 08:30 PM
So, KTO, I guess you dont mind spreading your ass cheeks for greedy company executives?

Why not just negotiate a minimum wage for yourself and have a job for life!

It is because of the history of unions that decent wages and benefits exist!

I never said there wasn't a time and place for unions I'm just saying they have gone beyond their usefulness. I understand that your inept in negotiating for yourself therefore you need to pay a hired gun (AMFA) to do your talking for you.

If you think the company is so screwd up how come you haven't become an executive yourself to change the company within?

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Birdman,Aug 18 2005, 08:41 PM
KTO, your in serious denial and still don't know Jack. I've been on agency fee for over five years now and have major problems with industrial unions, non-productivity, and union busting guns for hire like yourself. If you had done any research on my past postings (since Nov. 93') you wouldn't be going off on me half cocked. NEVER cross a picket line. BTW, are all your friends scabs?


All right Birdman I checked out most of your posts, they just go to show you how chaotic unions make running a company. Companies must be very flexible and diversified to remain competitive in todays markets. Unions clearly remove those two important features from the table.

No they are not they are just competent people capable of taking care of themselves, regardless if they are in a high paying job or not.

 

[Bagbelt]

Companies have the right to run their business, whether they have a union or not. The benefit of unionism is being able to challenge unjust actions as a legal greivant, whereas an employee at will has few options. I worked at HD for awhile and heard people who hated unions say it needed one. People who worked hard for years were making less than people being hired off the street. A lot of people come across like Ayn Rand on this board. If you have that type of intellect, God bless you. But you probably wouldn't be working for the airlines if you do.

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Bagbelt,Aug 18 2005, 10:58 PM
Companies have the right to run their business, whether they have a union or not. The benefit of unionism is being able to challenge unjust actions as a legal greivant,


If the unions left it at that they would be fine however it goes a lot deeper than that. They infiltrate entirely to deep into the operations of a company to the point they have a chokehold.
Example: I was working at this union facility where all I had to do was install a doubler on this skin using a squeeze, easiest job I've ever had. I was to make at least four a day 2 left and two right. My first day I had a little trouble handling the material and machine. I bit a few rivets. No problem right? Simply drill the bad ones out and install new ones. all went well. I then searched for about twenty minutes till I found a broom and dustpan, I finally find one in the electrical room. I then go to sweep up my mess of drill shavings. Here comes this union guy chewing me out about sweeping up these shavings and demands to know where I got the broom. I thought this was a, lets jack with the new guy, joke. He takes my broom and dustpan and leaves honestly pissed-off. Thirty minutes later my supervisor shows up with a guy with a broom and dustpan to sweep the floor and informs me not to sweep the floor or touch any custodial implements, Ill never forget that “Custodial Implementsâ€￾ Did it end there? No. A week later I'm on top of my game stamping out eighteen a day nine left and nine right. This same union guy comes up and tells me to quit being a smart a$$ and that I'm to build only four a day. Not long afterwards here comes my supervisor complementive of my efforts but to tell me to slow down. After a few other incidents I quit.

How can you effectivly run a company in this enviroment?


Doomed if you do Doomed if you don't:

The wildcat strike against British Airways that brought London’s Heathrow Airport to a standstill last week shows a hidden risk companies take on when they outsource key operations – they can fall victim to any labor disputes their vendor has with its employees.

British Airways spun off Gate Gourmet in 1997 and then hired the company to provide catering services. Hundreds of Gate Gourmet workers walked out last week to protest job cuts. With labor under pressure at many vendors, experts say companies that hand over critical operations to a third party need to look beyond just technical competence when awarding a contract.

In a twist, Gate Gourmet officials in part blamed BA for the mess. They felt that overly generous labor policies they inherited from the airline made it difficult for them to run their company efficiently and ultimately forced them to cut staff.

 

[Boomer]

quote=Birdman,Aug 18 2005, 08:41 PM
KTO, your in serious denial and still don't know Jack. I've been on agency fee for over five years now and have major problems with industrial unions, non-productivity, and union busting guns for hire like yourself. If you had done any research on my past postings (since Nov. 93') you wouldn't be going off on me half cocked. NEVER cross a picket line. BTW, are all your friends scabs?
All right Birdman I checked out most of your posts, they just go to show you how chaotic unions make running a company. Companies must be very flexible and diversified to remain competitive in todays markets. Unions clearly remove those two important features from the table.

No they are not they are just competent people capable of taking care of themselves, regardless if they are in a high paying job or not.

[post="289432"][/post]​

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KTO,

In your world, how is the fact that LUV is the most highly Unionized/compensated airline reconciled with the chaos you say unions bring?

The bottom line is that with or without Unions, failure to lead is the more likely culprit for business failure.

On another note, it appears that NWA has 1500 Maint. & Related to replace the some 5000 that could be on strike. Not a good replacement percentage.
USA Today, NWA has 1500 Scabs

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Boomer,Aug 19 2005, 05:50 PM
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In your world, how is the fact that LUV is the most highly Unionized/compensated airline reconciled with the chaos you say unions bring?

The bottom line is that with or without Unions, failure to lead is the more likely culprit for business failure.

There is always going to be some anomalies out there.

You are absolutely correct there is management that can screw up a non-union company just as quick as a unionized one however my point is unions consume company resources and removes their ability to maneuver in a volatile environment.

 

[eolesen]

On another note, it appears that NWA has 1500 Maint. & Related to replace the some 5000 that could be on strike. Not a good replacement percentage.
USA Today, NWA has 1500 Scabs

[post="289654"][/post]​

Maybe I'm missing something, but if overhaul gets outsourced, seems to me they could get by with about 2000 or less.

 

[Hopeful]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if overhaul gets outsourced, seems to me they could get by with about 2000 or less.

[post="289657"][/post]​

I think NWA wants ALL line maintenance outsourced as well as some of overhaul!

 

[keeptheodds]

People its been really fun and I'm very interested in visiting this board again after every thing is over with. Once again good luck.

Give me a call when my name hits that scab list.

 

[Boomer]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if overhaul gets outsourced, seems to me they could get by with about 2000 or less.

[post="289657"][/post]​

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The only way to know that is to have the relative balance between line and overhaul as it existed on the eve of the strike. As of yet, I've seen no figures breaking down the ratio.

The larger point is not the continuity of the Saturday schedule given the fall, fallback initiated early by NWA in anticipation of brokering a last minute failure in negotiations...after all, we know that airlines can reschedule a shift in their entire operational system on seconds notice while still bargaining in good faith: yeah, right!

The larger point is that NWA started the process of hiring Scabs well before NWA initiated a request to be released from negotiations and had downsized their schedule in anticipation of being allowed to pursue their objective of breaking AMFA through the appointment of a former Executive from NWA to the NMB.

Go figure.

 

[delldude]

IMHO ....amfa may have been ambushed.
NW files BK and AMFA has to go in and negotiate what was a contract now in a highly adversarial tone and then NW goes 1113 motions and all.......AMFA already rejected the last final offer....so where do we go from here??think they'll kowtow to 1113??
bottom line is they (NW) can and will show the judge how they need this 176 million relief.and the mr.niceguy thing will be out the window...look for "my way or the highway" type of neg's from here on out in BK.
then all the other labor groups will see the example AMFA caused on themselves and will willingly take concessions.
NW has AMFA by the balls if it goes BK.....


AMBUSH IS MURDER-MURDER IS FUN