Sick and Tired of Pilot Bashing

DaWoo

Member
Dec 26, 2002
24
0
R U related to JACK ????.....You sound just like him.........
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B

BottomFeeder

Guest
Hey Folks,
Why don''t you just get it out of your system now. Put all the remaining thoughts and negative comments out on this post. I read the posts with all the Chip cheep shots. The ALPA slams and the lifestyles of the rich and famous.So on and on and on.......
Frankly, I am sick of these people. I am ashamed to be associated with any of these people. Bottom line, if you don''t have a good comment or a non-bashing comment just keep it to your self.
Maybe then we can move on and try to heal this company.
We spend 90% of the time talking about the 10% bad things. When we spend 90% of the time talking of the 90% good things in our lives.
It is time to turn the page.
 

wings396

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,672
1,122
The pilot group deserves all of the Bashing that is coming their way. This is due to the fact that they permitted Chip to shoot off his mouth at the CWA & IAM groups by telling us to eat dirt for the company. Well guess what, now it is his turn to eat dirt and you will have to look long and hard to find any pilot sympathy on this board. After what we have lost, not to mention the pension loss 10 years ago we could care less if Chip or his pals lose their 100k+ pensions...give me a break and get real.
 

ONTHESTREET

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
198
0
If it is any consolation, Chip was preaching the same thing to the pilots on the alpa boards prior to his temporary banning from those boards for his actions (Clt news article etc.)

We paid him no attention.....why do you?

I do not know of a single pilot (other than Chip)that said or thought that you should do anything other than what you thought was right for your group. (CWA, IAM)

That said, This pension issue is extreamly important to the pilots still active since we have so many over 50. At 60 they must quit, forever. Pilots do not have the option of going past 60, and there is the problem. I am young enough that I can start over at a new airline and still get enough years in for a decent retirement, most of our guys cannot. The last round of furloughs cut to the 15 years senority level. Most of the people getting ready to lose their retirement have close to 30 years with the company.

I do not like the possibility of this arline going ch-7 but at the same time I am not about to tell a 30 year guy (Pilot, mechanic, or whoever)how to handle problems such as these. I hope that something can be done.

As far as Daves "Promise" that there will be a new retirement plan.......nobody has seen it. And considering the track record he has with all unions, would you take him at his word if it were the IAM or CWA that he was talking to?
 

KCFlyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
10,636
1,322
www.usaviation.com
A house divided against itself cannot stand A. Lincoln - 1858

Point fingers all you want, but good old Abe had it right before anybody ever had an idea of what an airline was. You're all in it together.
 

savyinvestor

Senior
Jan 15, 2003
494
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 10:22:02 AM ONTHESTREET wrote:

If it is any consolation, Chip was preaching the same thing to the pilots on the alpa boards prior to his temporary banning from those boards for his actions (Clt news article etc.)

We paid him no attention.....why do you?

I do not know of a single pilot (other than Chip)that said or thought that you should do anything other than what you thought was right for your group. (CWA, IAM)

That said, This pension issue is extreamly important to the pilots still active since we have so many over 50. At 60 they must quit, forever. Pilots do not have the option of going past 60, and there is the problem. I am young enough that I can start over at a new airline and still get enough years in for a decent retirement, most of our guys cannot. The last round of furloughs cut to the 15 years senority level. Most of the people getting ready to lose their retirement have close to 30 years with the company.

I do not like the possibility of this arline going ch-7 but at the same time I am not about to tell a 30 year guy (Pilot, mechanic, or whoever)how to handle problems such as these. I hope that something can be done.

As far as Daves "Promise" that there will be a new retirement plan.......nobody has seen it. And considering the track record he has with all unions, would you take him at his word if it were the IAM or CWA that he was talking to?
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[/blockquote]
I cannot believe the pilots will force the company to liquidate. The company has promised them a pension and they will STILL have a job. Trust me there can't be that many jobs for pilots out there except with foreign carriers and how many of those have already been filled and wouldn't their openings be for much different types of aircraft than U flies? Point being a little of something is better than a whole lot of nothing. I lost my job and believe me I would do the same job for a whole lot less just to have it back again. Too many sacrifices have already been made so cooler heads better prevail. It would also help if some folks would stop fanning the flames. Savy
 

airjackson

Member
Oct 17, 2002
15
0
PineyBob, Your above post is such a departure from your stand on the "RJ thread", that I can't help wonder where you stand. The idea of everybody working together to make this a better airline, stopping the pilot bashing, etc. is a change of heart no? Or is it only applicable if you are directly owned by group? Believe it or not (and not to get off thread here)the contract pilots have a VERY large stake in seeing U do well. OUR jobs, as well as yours' are on the line. Every passenger who steps onto my plane gets the very best that I, representing US AIRWAYS, can give. As for the furloughed group pilots, I hope every one of them finds employment soon. I would like to see them get EVERY new-hire spot growth at my airline would create. Many of the changes our industry is going through are beyond our control. Economics, and the free-market system are the driving force. We really have much more in common than anything which would divide us. Peace.
 
C

chipmunn

Guest
What I find interesting is how people can lack respect behind a PC and except for Tim Nelson and Chris Chiames never identify them self.

Respect is to treat others as you would have them treat you, to value the worth of every person, regardless of their opinion.

Throughout this "gut wrenching" restructuring, where labor has taken the greatest burden, I have never told people what to negotiate, just the ramifications of what could occur if TA's were not ratified.

I believe we should debate the issues, but not bash, shoot the messenger, or show a lack of respect.

Chip
 

ONTHESTREET

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
198
0
If the pilot group were younger I would agree with you 100%. We have a very large percentage of the active pilots very close to retirement. None of the 1800 furloughed would vote to shut the airline down, problem is we do not have a vote.

I am not an expert by any means on the retirment or BK rules but I am under the impression that during a ch-7 proceeding the pension is near the top of the list for "creditors" and the pilots affected may get more of a retirement that way than through the "New plan"

It is hard to say what a guy that spent 30 years here will do when threatened with losing everything.

There are a few jobs out there, not many though. But a guy has absolutly no options in the airline piloting department after 60. So using the addage that they still have a job doesn't mean much to all the pilots near the age of 60. At 60 they are done, if they want to be or not. There is no way for a 53 to 60 year old pilot to ever have enough time to come up with a new retirement.

Last I heard we only have two (2) pilots currently flying under the age of 40, and I think the percentage of pilots over the age of 50 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 46%. So if they lose the pension around 46% of the total pilot group now active is out of luck.

I hope U survives so I can come back...but I am proceeding on with my life under the assumption that I will never get recalled.
 

wings396

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,672
1,122
Chip, All I am saying is that you took it upon yourself to lead the CWA & IAM people to believe that we should take what the company offers to keep it afloat. Even if this meant working for MDA or Express for $13 an hour without a pension, or the 1/2 they offered of the new mainline one.
As I have said over and over, once we fall to this level there will be no return and no hope of a raise for 6 long years. $13 is near poverty now, what will it do for us in 2008? On the other hand your group may have to step back to an RJ in the interm with a chance to come back to your current position. We can't survive on what we will now earn. I agree that your pilot group has given a larger % than us, but you can still live on what is left and we can't period. If your pensions have to go to save us all then so be it. Even with your pension problems I am cetain that most pilots have some type of a nest egg of their own with what they have earned over the years. Putting anything away for us is nothing more than a dream. You told us what was best to do, now you must also do what is best to save the rest of us.
 

Tango-Bravo

Advanced
Aug 29, 2002
106
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/20/2003 7:08:51 PM BottomFeeder wrote:

Hey Folks,


Why don't you just get it out of your system now. Put all the remaining thoughts and negative comments out on this post. I read the posts with all the Chip cheep shots. The ALPA slams and the lifestyles of the rich and famous.So on and on and on.......


Frankly, I am sick of these people. I am ashamed to be associated with any of these people. Bottom line, if you don't have a good comment or a non-bashing comment just keep it to your self.


Maybe then we can move on and try to heal this company.


We spend 90% of the time talking about the 10% bad things. When we spend 90% of the time talking of the 90% good things in our lives.



It is time to turn the page.
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[/blockquote]
(boldface added)

Time for a reality check!!! Sorry to burst your "feel-good" bubble, but the 10% (or less) of what's [i]wrong[/i] with USAirways has brought about the potential demise of the 90% (or more) of what's [i]right[/i] about your airline. If you choose to ignore the 10%, as BottomFeeder implores us do, you will have no one to blame but yourselves when [i]100%[/i] of U goes down.
 
B

BottomFeeder

Guest
[Time for a reality check!!! Sorry to burst your "feel-good" bubble, but the 10% (or less) of what's wrong with USAirways has brought about the potential demise of the 90% (or more) of what's right about your airline. If you choose to ignore the 10%, as BottomFeeder implores us do, you will have no one to blame but yourselves when 100% of U goes down.
----------------
[/blockquote]

TB,

I agree it is failure to forget the past. But, it seems that complaining and bashing others does nothing to remedy the past. There are some misserable people who will continue to throw SH@T. Just to make the rest feel bad. Missery loves company.

Why not try to figure out how to improve the conditions with other solutions. Spend 90% of their time thinking about all the good things in their lives. Yea don't forget the bad, but spend 10% of the time on it.

The venting needs to end! Recovery from the bad times needs to begin now.

CUT OUR LOSSES AND MOVE ON! We all have had losses and it has been bad. What more can be said?