Sikh religious musicians forced to disembark US plane

[N965VJ]

Here’s an article with a few more details from the Sacramento Bee:

Sikh musicians protest order to leave plane
By Susan Ferriss

Published: Thursday, Nov. 27, 2008

Three Sikh Indian musicians who were ordered off a plane at Sacramento International Airport on Nov. 15 have filed complaints of discrimination and racial profiling with federal transportation officials and US Airways.

The musicians, who had performed in the Sacramento area as part of a U.S. tour, had passed through airport security with no problems and were already in their seats when a US Airways representative approached and asked them to get off, their attorney said Wednesday.

The musicians, who wear traditional Sikh turbans, were on their way, via Phoenix, to perform in Salt Lake City.

The men's English is limited, but they complied with the request. Once off the plane, they were told, through a Punjabi translator on a telephone, that the pilot refused to take off with the men on board, said attorney Jaspreet Singh, a New York-based attorney with United Sikhs, an international organization.

"The US Airways representatives were unable to give a clear explanation for why the pilot wouldn't fly with them," Singh said. "The interpreter finally told them, 'Just listen, don't do anything else. Just take the offer of a hotel overnight and they'll put you on a Delta flight in the morning to Salt Lake City.' "

"They were very, very upset about this," Singh said of the musicians, who are well known classical Sikh musicians – one of them elderly – who travel frequently.

US Airways representatives confirmed that they spoke with Singh on Wednesday about the incident.

James Olson, US Airways spokesman in Phoenix, said that "based on some observations from passengers and airline personnel" the three men were asked to get off Flight 493 to Phoenix because of "potential security concerns."

The airline decided to allow the flight to leave without the men, Olson said. He declined to explain the alleged security concerns.

"After resolving the concerns raised," the airline said in a press release, "US Airways provided overnight accommodations and rebooked these travelers on the next nonstop flight from Sacramento to their final destination."

Linkage to the rest of the article

 

[FWAAA]

What I'd like to know is what alarmed the pilot about these pax.

Sounds like bigoted ignorance on the part of the Kettles and the Captain. Poor white trash who lack sufficient diversity in their backgrounds:

James Olson, US Airways spokesman in Phoenix, said that "based on some observations from passengers and airline personnel" the three men were asked to get off Flight 493 to Phoenix because of "potential security concerns."

 

[UPNAWAY]

Probably not. But, if he's fired, USAPA will still make every effort to get his job back, because that's THEIR job.

In general why do Unions think it is their job to protect bad employees? Should'nt the unions want to have the highest of standards for their memebers, wouldn't that give them more leverage and better pay?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Sounds like bigoted ignorance on the part of the Kettles and the Captain. Poor white trash who lack sufficient diversity in their backgrounds:

My hunch is that, being Sikh, the men assuredly sported long beards and turbans, as this is a requirement of their religion. That made them look like Ayatollah Khomeini...or, more directly, different than "us." And, everyone knows the Ayatollah was an enemy of "us," so it's only logical (in his mind) that these men who looked like the Ayatollah must also be enemies and an immediate threat to the safety of the flight. Sufficiently different appearance is, in the small minded, sufficient grounds for fear and irrational action. The reptilian brain in some is still capable of completely overriding the reasoning mammalian brain.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Wasn't thinking about this case and I agree Pilots should always have ultimate authority.
But for example when that NBA player chocked his coach the union went to bat for him.

I bet the law says you have to equally represent but once presented with certain facts I bet they have the leeway to bail on people because they do if it is outrageous or criminal enough.

But disciplining aside couldn't the unions just have stricter codes of conduct in their by-laws?

 

[sharktooth]

In general why do Unions think it is their job to protect bad employees? Should'nt the unions want to have the highest of standards for their memebers, wouldn't that give them more leverage and better pay?

Why do you "presume" a fired employee is bad? Whatever causes you to even entertain the idea that the company makes no mistakes?

I personally know of an FA who was fired for truly bogus reasons. The union, interceding, prevented the company from acquiring a giant public black-eye because every part of the "evidence" was contrived and otherwise mishandled. One of the top attorneys quit over the "cartoonish and grade school" behavior of the corporate bozos who engineered the FAs termination. Unfortunately, integrity left and shameless incompetence remains, to this day.

I have no idea why you drink the company koolaide on this and other issues other than naivete. Hopefully, a few years experience will result in you pursuing a more realistic approach in these matters.

Side note. Healthy unions mostly set out to ascertain the facts of a situation and not necessarily to "save a person's job". In the presence of overwhelming Tempe incompetence, however, I would presume most terminations would turn out to be bogus. I have been party to some terminations where the corporation tries to "send a message" by terminating a, generally random, employee. Would that employee be you, would you not wish a format (due process) with which you could defend yourself, something most any union provides?

 

[700UW]

Every union is required to represent their members, it is called the Duty of Fair Representation.

Which was handed down by the US Supreme Court.

DFR Information

 

[exB717Flyer]

In general why do Unions think it is their job to protect bad employees?

Why are alleged criminals entitled to a defense attorney? It's a matter of due process. If the company follows the contract and has a valid reason for termination they'll likely succeed. The union's job is to ensure the contract is adhered to and every employee is entitled to that regardless.

 

[black and gold]

Sounds like bigoted ignorance on the part of the Kettles and the Captain. Poor white trash who lack sufficient diversity in their backgrounds:

Thought these people were boycotting usair from the last incident. Can I get $ from a frivolous lawsuit?

 

[sharktooth]

BTW what's with the "Those People" comment?? Look like you white hood needs to be pressed.

A lot of Archie Bunker types and ditto-heads out there for whom xenophobia is a way of life.

 

[Phoenix]

... none of us were there to witness first hand what if anything happened.

Thank you for interjecting an important point, Piney.

It is bewildering why pilots use logic like "Sounds like bigoted ignorance on the part of the Kettles or "My hunch".

What is this presumption of guilt that is merely based on incomplete hearsay from news outlets that thrive on printing fomented controversy to enhance sales?

A couple years ago a US crew allowed a 300 lb. pig to fly from PHL to SEA in first class after the Crystal City lawyers said they had to because it was a "companion pig". The pig did not fasten his seat belt and caused an unsecured security situation throughout the entire flight.

Maybe these musicians refused to fasten their seat belts and cited unfair treatment since not even the pig had to wear his. Or maybe the musicians refused to let the pilot take off until he offloaded the 3,000 lbs of excessive fuel.

Yeah, if one listens hard enough to the drone of their computer cooling fan, all kinds of "sounds like" and "hunches" can be divined.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Thank you for interjecting an important point, Piney.

It is bewildering why pilots use logic like "Sounds like bigoted ignorance on the part of the Kettles or "My hunch".

What is this presumption of guilt that is merely based on incomplete hearsay from news outlets that thrive on printing fomented controversy to enhance sales?

A couple years ago a US crew allowed a 300 lb. pig to fly from PHL to SEA in first class after the Crystal City lawyers said they had to because it was a "companion pig". The pig did not fasten his seat belt and caused an unsecured security situation throughout the entire flight.

Maybe these musicians refused to fasten their seat belts and cited unfair treatment since not even the pig had to wear his. Or maybe the musicians refused to let the pilot take off until he offloaded the 3,000 lbs of excessive fuel.

Yeah, if one listens hard enough to the drone of their computer cooling fan, all kinds of "sounds like" and "hunches" can be divined.

How amusing that you vilify some of us for conjecture, and then go on to do the same.

If not for conjecture, these message boards would probably not exist at all. We're all entitled to opinions, and as long as they are labeled as such, you can read them or put our names on ignore.

Shall I go back into your long, illustrious history of posting here and see if you have not ever been guilty of the same thing?

And, of course, Piney Bob ONLY posts factual material and never offers conjecture.

Glass houses...

Throwing stones...

 

[Phoenix]

How amusing that you vilify some of us for conjecture, and then go on to do the same.

If not for conjecture, these message boards would probably not exist at all. We're all entitled to opinions, and as long as they are labeled as such, you can read them or put our names on ignore.

Shall I go back into your long, illustrious history of posting here and see if you have not ever been guilty of the same thing?

And, of course, Piney Bob ONLY posts factual material and never offers conjecture.

Glass houses...

Throwing stones...

Thouh dost protest tooo much.

My "conjecture" was tongue and cheek to show how we can all engage in unfounded conjecture about what a crew did or did not do. The less facts we have the more colorful we can make our accusations.

Why join in with "reporters" and "victimized musicians" to throw stones at a crew that is no different than us (unless there is evidence otherwise)?

The jails are full of "innocent" convicts. The media has plenty of sensationalist reporters. And USAir has crews that will let pigs fly in first class without a seat belt.

What's the rush? The truth has a way of being revealed in time.

 

[ggiby]

I bet the Captain isn't even a dues paying USAPA member, so one less for the company to worry about.

you would think given the city pairs it was a West crew.... and most of those
guys are mad about USAPA being their union. But.... the half that say they are
not paying their dues.... probably are and just don't want to admit it to there
fellow West coworkers..... cuz if they aren't paying their dues.... they will soon be
unemployed....

 

[NCFL]

From what I can gather, that may have been a mainline west crew. Oh, and please , let's not make this into a west versus east thing.

WTF. If you're not trying to make this into an "East West" thing, then why the heck did you post this information?