STL rumored to become focus city
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LambertMan
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Well, the rumor as of now is STL is going to become a focus city as airlines like to call it. Not sure what is going to happen to AX. I would guess they'd leave LAX, MIA, ORD, DFW, SJC, RDU and possibly BOS as destinations. This isn't for sure, but its a rumor that keeps going around. My neighbor who works w/ AA cannot comment on anything so I think this may be true. Truthfullly, I think this is a good thing, I'm tired of worrying about what reductions are coming next all the time. I hope an LCC comes in and busts AA's midwestern chops (DFW, ORD).
Cosmo
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On 7/8/2003 2:49:22 PM AA763 wrote:
I would guess they''d leave LAX, MIA, ORD, DFW, SJC, RDU and possibly BOS as destinations.
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Unless STL is to become purely a spoke city for AA, I think you could safely add LGA, DCA, SFO, PHX, LAS, MCO and SJU to your list of continued mainline destinations.On 7/8/2003 2:49:22 PM AA763 wrote:
I would guess they''d leave LAX, MIA, ORD, DFW, SJC, RDU and possibly BOS as destinations.
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Plus there''s one other consideration if the STL hub goes away. Without the hub, AA''s STL-LGW flights probably wouldn''t survive, and the STL gateway designation for U.K. service would then likely be moved -- possibly to DEN for use by UA, which might be able to switch the London airport to LHR to match BA''s DEN-LHR service. I don''t think that''s a result AA would like to see. JMHO.
TWAnr
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On 7/8/2003 2:49:22 PM AA763 wrote:
Well, the rumor as of now is STL is going to become a "focus city" as airlines like to call it.
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Rumors at American Airlines regarding STL have a nasty habit of being prophecies of coming attractions.On 7/8/2003 2:49:22 PM AA763 wrote:
Well, the rumor as of now is STL is going to become a "focus city" as airlines like to call it.
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umpieumkn
Member
Surely, management did not just wake up on the morning of 7/2/03 and say "You know? I think we may need to close the STL hub".
So why in the world did they go to the expense of
1."Train" 920 FA''s
2. Make them lose their AA qualifications
3. Pay up to $12,500 to each one for moving expenses (which I understand from one FA who chose that option that he has yet to receive his furniture and won''t for another two weeks even though it''s been in storage for two weeks, and is staying at a hotel, driving a rental car and eating on AA''s expense)
4. Have those who were smart enough NOT to move there, put up with the aggrevation and expense of commuting
....and then announce on the same exact day that they begin flying from their new base that within two weeks the hub may be closed?
Mayes
(sorry, not one of the "smilies" below would adequately portray the disgust I feel right now....they don''t have any hands).
So why in the world did they go to the expense of
1."Train" 920 FA''s
2. Make them lose their AA qualifications
3. Pay up to $12,500 to each one for moving expenses (which I understand from one FA who chose that option that he has yet to receive his furniture and won''t for another two weeks even though it''s been in storage for two weeks, and is staying at a hotel, driving a rental car and eating on AA''s expense)
4. Have those who were smart enough NOT to move there, put up with the aggrevation and expense of commuting
....and then announce on the same exact day that they begin flying from their new base that within two weeks the hub may be closed?
Mayes
(sorry, not one of the "smilies" below would adequately portray the disgust I feel right now....they don''t have any hands).
LGA Fleet Service
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On 7/8/2003 3:58:28 PM TWAnr wrote:
Rumors at American Airlines regarding STL have a nasty habit of being prophecies of coming attractions.
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I remember much gnashing of teeth over the winter over the "Big Announcement" which everyone thought was going to be "The Closure" and turned out to be the opposite.
For what its worth, I don't think STL is going away.I think there may be further cuts in the number of mainline departures(But not below 225 daily) and an increase in AX flying.
Arpey is posturing in order to wring cost cuts from the hub cities.
Good thing they got rid of those 717's..STL is ideally suited for that aircraft, so many routes an 80 is overkill on out of there.Not to mention the fact that we wouldn't be stuffing our passengers onto RJ's for stage lengths that aren't what the damn thing was meant for in the first place. PIT-MIA? CMH-MIA? Who thought up those winners? Cripes...Fuel, Bags and what, maybe 35 pax?
Put a 717 in there and you can make that a daily trip, and not lose your ass while doing it.You can also syphon traffic from OAL's by deploying the 717 into markets where the competition only offers RJ service.Maybe even open a new market or two? Hmmm...
Pull up an RGG for almost any station, look where the F100's are and see what we'll either be giving away to Eagle or the competition outright.(From LGA alone YYZ and RDU) The 717 could have stopped that...
But, we decided to help Air Tran out with their fleet renewal program, all the while moaning about LCC's eating our lunch...go figure.
Sorry, got a bit side tracked there, what were we talking about again?
On 7/8/2003 3:58:28 PM TWAnr wrote:
Rumors at American Airlines regarding STL have a nasty habit of being prophecies of coming attractions.
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I remember much gnashing of teeth over the winter over the "Big Announcement" which everyone thought was going to be "The Closure" and turned out to be the opposite.
For what its worth, I don't think STL is going away.I think there may be further cuts in the number of mainline departures(But not below 225 daily) and an increase in AX flying.
Arpey is posturing in order to wring cost cuts from the hub cities.
Good thing they got rid of those 717's..STL is ideally suited for that aircraft, so many routes an 80 is overkill on out of there.Not to mention the fact that we wouldn't be stuffing our passengers onto RJ's for stage lengths that aren't what the damn thing was meant for in the first place. PIT-MIA? CMH-MIA? Who thought up those winners? Cripes...Fuel, Bags and what, maybe 35 pax?
Put a 717 in there and you can make that a daily trip, and not lose your ass while doing it.You can also syphon traffic from OAL's by deploying the 717 into markets where the competition only offers RJ service.Maybe even open a new market or two? Hmmm...
Pull up an RGG for almost any station, look where the F100's are and see what we'll either be giving away to Eagle or the competition outright.(From LGA alone YYZ and RDU) The 717 could have stopped that...
But, we decided to help Air Tran out with their fleet renewal program, all the while moaning about LCC's eating our lunch...go figure.
Sorry, got a bit side tracked there, what were we talking about again?
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
One more thing, wouldn''t closing STL have the effect of dumping more traffic back into ORD and DFW? Wasn''t STL supposed to be the relief valve for ORD?
If they start ramming more flights through ORD and DFW isn''t that going to undo all the supposed benefits of depeaking the hubs? Longer taxi times, longer wait times for gates, ect.
Although, considering the disconnect between the Ivory Tower and the working class around here,nothing really suprises me anymore.
If they start ramming more flights through ORD and DFW isn''t that going to undo all the supposed benefits of depeaking the hubs? Longer taxi times, longer wait times for gates, ect.
Although, considering the disconnect between the Ivory Tower and the working class around here,nothing really suprises me anymore.
kirkpatrick
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On 7/9/2003 3:53:12 AM LGA Fleet Service wrote:
One more thing, wouldn''t closing STL have the effect of dumping more traffic back into ORD and DFW? Wasn''t STL supposed to be the relief valve for ORD?
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On 7/9/2003 3:53:12 AM LGA Fleet Service wrote:
One more thing, wouldn''t closing STL have the effect of dumping more traffic back into ORD and DFW? Wasn''t STL supposed to be the relief valve for ORD?
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I agree. I don''t think AA will be closing STL anytime soon. They wanted a third midwest hub and although the traffic drop relieved the pressure on DFW and ORD, the traffic will be back eventually, and STL will be there to do the job it was intended to do.
MK
What gets me is that they come out and tell us that they have a positive cash flow for May then say they need to make further cuts. If the operation is making money and they still need to make cuts that tells me that the debt is what they need to get a handle on. The Debt is our problem not STL.
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On 7/9/2003 9
18 AM MiAAmi wrote:
What gets me is that they come out and tell us that they have a positive cash flow for May then say they need to make further cuts. If the operation is making money and they still need to make cuts that tells me that the debt is what they need to get a handle on. The Debt is our problem not STL.
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There is a world of difference between Positive Cash Flow and "profits." Positive cash flow just means that AA''s losses won''t cause it to run out of cash in the next few weeks. AA must make much further cuts to regain Profits, or else it will not survive. Your loose use of "making money" could confuse people. On 7/9/2003 9
18 AM MiAAmi wrote: What gets me is that they come out and tell us that they have a positive cash flow for May then say they need to make further cuts. If the operation is making money and they still need to make cuts that tells me that the debt is what they need to get a handle on. The Debt is our problem not STL.
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That said, I agree that STL is not a problem right now. As AA repositions itself as a vacation airline, it will need all the capacity it can get in STL to connect all the VFR traffic, while pushing what little business traffic still exists thru ORD and DFW.
jimntx
Veteran
I think people are confusing the issue of whether or not there is an STL flight attendant/pilot base and whether AA operates STL as a hub.
I don''t see them pulling out of STL, or giving all the flying to AX or AE. There is way too much business there.
However, having an STL hub does not require having a crew base there. It''s convenient, but not required. STL is sufficiently close to both DFW and (particularly) ORD that you could see a LOT more sequences begin with a DFW-STL or ORD-STL leg and ending with the reverse.
I don''t see them pulling out of STL, or giving all the flying to AX or AE. There is way too much business there.
However, having an STL hub does not require having a crew base there. It''s convenient, but not required. STL is sufficiently close to both DFW and (particularly) ORD that you could see a LOT more sequences begin with a DFW-STL or ORD-STL leg and ending with the reverse.
TWAnr
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On 7/11/2003 1:53:41 PM jimntx wrote:
I think people are confusing the issue of whether or not there is an STL flight attendant/pilot base and whether AA operates STL as a hub.
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I think that the mayor and the governor do know the difference:On 7/11/2003 1:53:41 PM jimntx wrote:
I think people are confusing the issue of whether or not there is an STL flight attendant/pilot base and whether AA operates STL as a hub.
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AA Likely to Cut St. Louis Hub
7/11/2003 5:23:56 PM
(KSDK) -- Bad news for St. Louis from Dallas Texas on Friday. It appears American Airlines will make deep cuts in service to St. Louis. Just how drastic the service cuts will be remains to be seen.
Governor Bob Holden and St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay went to Dallas today to meet with top honchos at American Airlines. The carrier is in the throws of trimming costs by cutting service.
Already, American has reduced the number of flights at Lambert Airport and laid off thousands of flight attendants. The next step: reduce more flights in an attempt to control costs. Those reductions could cost St. Louis the third American hub.
The experts say it''s likely St. Louis will lose its hub status, and become just another spoke in the American wheel, which means fewer direct flights.
Mayor Francis Slay says there is a glimmer of hope, and it may not be with American Airlines. “I think we''ve done everything we can, but I think in the end, American will announce cutbacks in St. Louis, but we are not sitting on our hands, we are already in conversation with other airlines. Some have called us, and we have called others. They are interested in St. Louis because we are affordable and efficient, and within a two hour flight for two thirds of the country.â€
Slay would not identify the airlines expressing interest in St. Louis. The mayor adds that he and the governor had hoped to meet with American next week, but American officials said today would be better. That leads city staffers to think the decisions about cuts will come very soon.
[url="http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article_lc.asp?storyid=43641"]http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article_lc.asp?storyid=43641[/URL]
If we shut down STL as a hub I hope they move the flying rather than a big parking of aircraft. I have to wonder where we would be financially if we had never bought TWA. I''m not saying that TWA is the cause of where we are financially but maybe we would would have been in a much better setting had we just stayed #2.
I wonder what would happen to American if the courts and the lawmakers or a combination of the above would come in and rip the assets of TWA away from American and return TWA back to the air. American has lied from day one either verbally or in the purchase agreement since day one. That is the way that airline has been.
Return the planes, the people, the gates, the money, the gates and property back to TWA. return peoples'' lives while your at it too.
Return the planes, the people, the gates, the money, the gates and property back to TWA. return peoples'' lives while your at it too.
nyc6035
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There's an interesting idea...have the state of MO buy back the assets of TWA from AMR for oh lets say $500MM...$742MM minus the $ AMR got for the Worldspan position less some depreciation.
They could use the money they had allocated for building the 3rd runway to finance the venture.
They might as well use the $ for buying the airline. It makes zero sense to build a 3rd runway at STL without a hub carrier.
If you figure 20K employees at 40K a year in salary at say 10% income tax that works out to $80M per year in additional income tax revenue. At current interest rates that would be enough to pay off the $500M in borrowings.
I say go for it:
Take the TWA LLC operating license
The slots/route authorities
The Name
27 757s
perhaps 50-80 of the MD80s (although I always thought this was the only part of TWA that AMR really wanted)
The MCI Hanger
Ground equipment equivilent to what was acquired by AMR in the courts
A 5 year code-share agreement
Receiprical Frequent Flyer benefits for 5 years
Access to the personnel data for all former TWA llc employees
So would AMR be an interested seller?
Would they be an interested seller if the State of MO. threatened a lawsuit?
Then...since it's flight of fancy hour...in six months time after having stabilized the carrier, merge the outfit with America West who agree to take over the bond payments as the price of the deal.
They could use the money they had allocated for building the 3rd runway to finance the venture.
They might as well use the $ for buying the airline. It makes zero sense to build a 3rd runway at STL without a hub carrier.
If you figure 20K employees at 40K a year in salary at say 10% income tax that works out to $80M per year in additional income tax revenue. At current interest rates that would be enough to pay off the $500M in borrowings.
I say go for it:
Take the TWA LLC operating license
The slots/route authorities
The Name
27 757s
perhaps 50-80 of the MD80s (although I always thought this was the only part of TWA that AMR really wanted)
The MCI Hanger
Ground equipment equivilent to what was acquired by AMR in the courts
A 5 year code-share agreement
Receiprical Frequent Flyer benefits for 5 years
Access to the personnel data for all former TWA llc employees
So would AMR be an interested seller?
Would they be an interested seller if the State of MO. threatened a lawsuit?
Then...since it's flight of fancy hour...in six months time after having stabilized the carrier, merge the outfit with America West who agree to take over the bond payments as the price of the deal.
