Storm worsens plight of US Airways - Crowd of pilots expected at Virginia courthouse

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 2/21/2003 12:38:49 PM savyinvestor wrote:

Look for the RSA to pull the DIP financing if the pilots win in court. RSA may provide the financing if the pilots win, but further negotiations reduce or freeze their pensions IMHO. Bronner is in a win/win situation and will make money if U is liquidated or successfully emerges as a LOW cost carrier. Savy
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If the RSA pulls DIP financing without even attempting to negotiate this issue with ALPA look for HUGE lawsuits, not only ALPA but management and other creditors as well. The RSA offered financing to continue the operation, and without a good faith effort they would clearly lose this case. The RSA knows this, and may make a lot of noise, but that's just what it would be. Besides, it would allow management to find other suitors, maybe even ones with fewer demands than the RSA has.

 

[chipmunn]

The difference between terminating the pilot pension and other employee group pensions is that ALPA has taken three cuts to fund its pension whereas every other group has taken just one retirement cut to solve their underfunding problem. ALPA took a 26 to 33 percent pay cut in August, another 8 percent pay cut in December, and executed a third cut with LOA 83. The LOA eliminated future lump sum payments, reduced the multiplier from 2.4 to 1.8 percent, and capped FAE at 50 percent, resulting in an additional $77 million savings earmarked for the pilot pension restoration funding.

How many other employee groups have taken three retirement cuts and have been asked for a fourth?

I'll naswer that question. None.

The pilot group has stepped up to the plate for three cuts to fund its pension, but the other employee groups have each taken just one cut.

In fact, the February 7 ALPA code-a-phone said, “The MEC today issued a joint 12-page letter that discusses the status of the pilots’ pension plan and the reasons for the MEC’s opposition of the termination of the pilots’ defined benefit plan. The letter includes detailed reasons why management’s alternative proposed defined contribution pension plan is unacceptable, an explanation of the impact of the plan termination and how it would affect your benefits, graphs that show how the Company plans to transfer funding from the pilots’ pension plan to cover the other employee pension plans’ cost increases, and charts that demonstrate how the pilots will lose substantial accrued benefits that have already been earned.â€

The pilot group has taken its fair share of cuts and according to the MEC is in no mood to fund other employee pensions.

Chip

 

[Pacemaker]

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On 2/21/2003 1:35:56 PM LavMan wrote:




PS: I am also a pilot (ATP MEL, CSEL, CFII) and am quite up on current pilot hiring (Airline pilot career mag, climbto350.com, aviationinterviews.com, etc.) and can personally attest that Chip is delusional about his rosy pilot hiring forecast. Just ask the former TWA 767 Captain stocking paint at our local Home Depot..




Lou


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I think Chip specifically mentioned overseas as a possible area of pilot hiring, not the U.S. Personally I was offered an interview with a Japanese carrier that would have paid me more than my current US Airways F/O pay but I turned it down because of 5 months of training in Japan and only 10 days off per month - family reasons.

The jobs are out there but you have to leave the country. I agree that back here in the States you basically have to have a very good friend as an inside contact or you will have a very difficult time finding flying work.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 2/21/2003 1:33:59 PM LavMan wrote:

huge? they are getting 8%, ALPA is getting 19%, look in the mirror.
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Divided by maybe a hundred in their case, and 4,000 plus in ALPA's case. Not to mention the HUGE concesssions ALPA took (upwards of 40% of pay now, and maybe more with pension changes). Normal management teams get 2-3% of the reorganized company.

 

[LavMan]

Chip, get off it, your pension cuts will not fund anyother groups pension. How fast you change.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 2/21/2003 107 PM savyinvestor wrote:

Negotiations would be to freeze or reduce the pension. Other investors perhaps. Savy
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No argument. The company has NOT negotiated with ALPA over this issue AT ALL. I'm sure that if the judge finds in ALPA's favor, that will be one of the major reasons. I, and many others, find it rather disturbing that this management team is attempting to "pay" themselves through huge stock allocations, while denying employees a benefit promised to them in collective bargaining.

 

[LavMan]

From Lou on another thread:

just can't quit smirking every time I read one of Chip's posts. This guy used to be the biggest Company Man Cheerleader on this forum, now he is the biggest anti-company rable-rouser!

I got nothing against you man, but you sure have changed your tune. In all seriousness though, if we are having trouble making airplane payments odds are strong that we are in pretty bad shape.

PS: I am also a pilot (ATP MEL, CSEL, CFII) and am quite up on current pilot hiring (Airline pilot career mag, climbto350.com, aviationinterviews.com, etc.) and can personally attest that Chip is delusional about his rosy pilot hiring forecast. Just ask the former TWA 767 Captain stocking paint at our local Home Depot..



Lou

 

[LavMan]

huge? they are getting 8%, ALPA is getting 19%, look in the mirror.

 

[cat 111]

Chip, If you don't like what is going on then leave.I remember your big mouth saying that during the iam negotiations.

 

[LavMan]

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On 2/21/2003 4:39:43 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

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On 2/21/2003 3:36:48 PM LavMan wrote:

You know Chip, some of us on here are not protected by the corporate like you and if we choose to remain anonymous and protect ourselves so be it. Get off the kick of identify yourself.

And like you have told us thousands of times, you need to take the cuts to save 30,000 employees. You need to take the cuts to save US Airways. If you don't like it then quit, you have told us this thousands of times. Are you too scared to take your own advice?
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Hey Lavman, why did you change your name? You used to be called "biffeman" and had the exact same dislike for pilots. You really need a new line of work, so that your inferiority complex is less evident. Pilots don't need to do anything to protect your job. Your job wouldn't exist here without the pilots, or just about any other group for that matter, so grow up!
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Dude, I have no idea of who you are and what you are all about, but do not know of anyone named biffeman, and I am just relaying what all the others have about chip.

And you need to get of your god complex. There would be no need for pilots if it was not for the IAM members building the planes you fly, and 40% of the airbus parts are IAM made in the US.

 

[LavMan]

You know Chip, some of us on here are not protected by the corporate like you and if we choose to remain anonymous and protect ourselves so be it. Get off the kick of identify yourself.

And like you have told us thousands of times, you need to take the cuts to save 30,000 employees. You need to take the cuts to save US Airways. If you don't like it then quit, you have told us this thousands of times. Are you too scared to take your own advice?

 

[chipmunn]

Cat III, as I have said before I may leave dependent upon on how the pension issue is resolved, if the company is burned to the ground, or the airline simply fails.

However, if you have the ability to insult someone behind the computer screen, do you have the courage to publicly identify yourself like Tim Nelson, Jim Root, and Chris Chiames, or are you going to hide behind the PC?

In the eyes of the MEC and rank-and-file, ALPA is not being treated fairly and is being asked for a fourth pension cut, whereas every other employee has been asked for just one cut.

Chip

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 2/21/2003 3:36:48 PM LavMan wrote:

You know Chip, some of us on here are not protected by the corporate like you and if we choose to remain anonymous and protect ourselves so be it. Get off the kick of identify yourself.

And like you have told us thousands of times, you need to take the cuts to save 30,000 employees. You need to take the cuts to save US Airways. If you don't like it then quit, you have told us this thousands of times. Are you too scared to take your own advice?
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[/blockquote]
Hey Lavman, why did you change your name? You used to be called "biffeman" and had the exact same dislike for pilots. You really need a new line of work, so that your inferiority complex is less evident. Pilots don't need to do anything to protect your job. Your job wouldn't exist here without the pilots, or just about any other group for that matter, so grow up!

 

[chipmunn]

PineyBob:

With all due respect, I disagree with your post and so does ALPA. There is no difference of opinion within the pilot group and our MEC is in 100 percent support of our unions action.

My feeling towards US Airways, Mr. Siegel, and others have changed.

I believe ALPA MEC Chairman Captain Bill Pollock's comment today to Rueters is accurate. "US Airways is attempting to force pilots to bear an unacceptable and unjust burden", Pollock said.

At this point I am treating this situation with the thought of what is best for my family and colleagues. ALPA will fight for its pension and let the "Chips" fall where they may.

I am preparing for life without US Airways and maybe you should as well.

Chip

 

[cat 111]

Chip, You can take your blocks and go home now.DELETED BY MODERATOR !!!!