Strike?
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HPearlyretiree
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WTF?
Yeah, why are the employees of airlines that are on life support so eager to form a circular firing squad?
And of course the non legacy carriers just rub their hands in glee.
Yeah, why are the employees of airlines that are on life support so eager to form a circular firing squad?
And of course the non legacy carriers just rub their hands in glee.
JAMAKE1
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HPearlyRetiree:
Nobody wants to bring the airline down. This strike vote sends a message to United management that the flight attendants stand behind the UAL AFA Negotiating Committee. The term sheet that United management presented to AFA seeks to virtually gut our contract. We have endured significant givebacks in wages, vacation, and work rules and there is a collective consensus that the company is expoiting the bankruptcy laws to further erode our profession. Now that our negotiating committe has the solid backing of the rank and file, hopefully a compromise can be achieved on both sides. We are all well aware of the consequences in the event that CHAOS should occur. Unfortunately, this is how the game is played when it comes to contract negotiations...
Nobody wants to bring the airline down. This strike vote sends a message to United management that the flight attendants stand behind the UAL AFA Negotiating Committee. The term sheet that United management presented to AFA seeks to virtually gut our contract. We have endured significant givebacks in wages, vacation, and work rules and there is a collective consensus that the company is expoiting the bankruptcy laws to further erode our profession. Now that our negotiating committe has the solid backing of the rank and file, hopefully a compromise can be achieved on both sides. We are all well aware of the consequences in the event that CHAOS should occur. Unfortunately, this is how the game is played when it comes to contract negotiations...
HPearlyretiree
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It sends a message to United management that you all are a bunch of petty whiners who could care less about the big picture and only want short term gains, rather than contribute to the overall health of an airline that is in its death throes.
Greed goes both ways, UA is a basket case and a dinosaur, you have real competition that does a better job at a lower cost and they please their customers.
Don't like UA? Quit, find another job, there are thousands that would love to take your place, airline employees aren't special in today's economy, no one owes you anything.
Do you all realize that your company loses millions every quarter? Where do you all get off trying to squeeze blood from a stone?
The flying public (the ones that pay your salary) don't give a crap about your struggles, they will just fly someone else if you go on strike and piss them off.
Utter stupidity, brainless groupthink and an unrealistic view of the industry will bring you down.
Greed goes both ways, UA is a basket case and a dinosaur, you have real competition that does a better job at a lower cost and they please their customers.
Don't like UA? Quit, find another job, there are thousands that would love to take your place, airline employees aren't special in today's economy, no one owes you anything.
Do you all realize that your company loses millions every quarter? Where do you all get off trying to squeeze blood from a stone?
The flying public (the ones that pay your salary) don't give a crap about your struggles, they will just fly someone else if you go on strike and piss them off.
Utter stupidity, brainless groupthink and an unrealistic view of the industry will bring you down.
casual rat
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UA really needs to dump some 'Management'...A strike is suicide right now. The powers that be are so out of sync with reality, but codependency is borne out of necessity and survival. Vote with your feet, if there's something better out there, go for it!
HPearlyretiree said:
"We can't save the village, so we'll have to burn it down" mentality will only result in the same situation that USAir found itself in last weekend. Another example of Luddite union thinking (A Luddite is a person who fears or loathes technology, Today, the term Luddite is reserved for a person who regards technology and change as causing more harm than good in society, and who behaves accordingly.)
WingNaPrayer
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desertfox said:
Oh, you mean . . . Republicans!
JAMAKE1
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HPearlyRetiree:
Your post is both offensive and obnoxious. "If you don't like UA, quit" is such a tired cliche. I love United and I loved my job, thank you. I am pro-United, pro-Union, and Pro-Customer. You clearly lack an understanding of how union negotiations work. We are not trying to squeeze blood from a stone, but rather are fighting to preserve hard fought work rules and benefits that have taken years and years to attain. I'll bet that if your employer attempted to gut your pay by 30%-50% percent as well as ax your benefits, you would not sit on the sidelines without a fight. Although I am on a voluntary furlough at the moment, I have always conducted myself as a professional. I find it offensive that you classify us as "a bunch of petty whiners". Experiencing the destruction of one's profession is personally very painful to endure. I notice that you come on these boards and talk at people, rather than giving a well thought out rebuttal. You insite and inflame with an emotional immaturity. Try to have a bit of empathy and show a little class...
Your post is both offensive and obnoxious. "If you don't like UA, quit" is such a tired cliche. I love United and I loved my job, thank you. I am pro-United, pro-Union, and Pro-Customer. You clearly lack an understanding of how union negotiations work. We are not trying to squeeze blood from a stone, but rather are fighting to preserve hard fought work rules and benefits that have taken years and years to attain. I'll bet that if your employer attempted to gut your pay by 30%-50% percent as well as ax your benefits, you would not sit on the sidelines without a fight. Although I am on a voluntary furlough at the moment, I have always conducted myself as a professional. I find it offensive that you classify us as "a bunch of petty whiners". Experiencing the destruction of one's profession is personally very painful to endure. I notice that you come on these boards and talk at people, rather than giving a well thought out rebuttal. You insite and inflame with an emotional immaturity. Try to have a bit of empathy and show a little class...
JAMAKE1
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Seque:
What exactly is "looking out the front windshield"? Handing over everthing the company is asking for in its term sheet? The strike vote is a tactic. It arms our MEC negotiating committee with momentum at the negotiating table and hopefully a middle ground will be reached between what the company is asking for and what we are willing to concede. You may recall how quickly the AFA and CWA reached tentative agreements with USAirways once their respective memberships voted overwhelmingly to strike...
What exactly is "looking out the front windshield"? Handing over everthing the company is asking for in its term sheet? The strike vote is a tactic. It arms our MEC negotiating committee with momentum at the negotiating table and hopefully a middle ground will be reached between what the company is asking for and what we are willing to concede. You may recall how quickly the AFA and CWA reached tentative agreements with USAirways once their respective memberships voted overwhelmingly to strike...
Hi. UA 1-K here. I tend to read more than post, but this topic really caught me.
The unfortunate thing about the publicity of an authorized strike, or "CHAOS", is that its exposure to the flying public causes a complete lack of confidence in the airline. That is, (as I have posted in the US Airways forum), customers begin to doubt the airline's ability to deliver them from point A to point b.
I understand how hard the employees of the airilnes work; how long they've dedicated their lives to their jobs, and that facing pay cuts is horrendous. And, I undertstand a loss of faith in management who always seems to come back to the workforce for more. But quite frankly, I work hard too. I have ZERO desire to be stuck in Chicago, Denver, LA, or wherever, because a group of flight attendants decides to CHAOS my flight or others that affect it.
It's at this point that everything else goes out the window. The traveler wants to dedicate budgeted travel dollars to carriers who will get him or her from point A to point B and back again with some measure of reliability. If there isn't that reliability, he or she simply selects another carrier. And you can have all the contracts, work rules, etc., that you want; but when the revenue stream begins to flow in other directions, nobody wins and nobody gets paid. And I'm not talking about the $168 transcon vacationer. I'm talking about savvy travelers who sometimes go out of their way to fly the airlines. Every airline has this group of people. The difference is now - as illustrated by the US debacle last weekend - the traveling public stops caring about labor-management woes when their flights are canceled. A strike at this airline would sure teach management a lesson. But it's a lesson that the traveler has no interest in hearing.
Good luck to all.
The unfortunate thing about the publicity of an authorized strike, or "CHAOS", is that its exposure to the flying public causes a complete lack of confidence in the airline. That is, (as I have posted in the US Airways forum), customers begin to doubt the airline's ability to deliver them from point A to point b.
I understand how hard the employees of the airilnes work; how long they've dedicated their lives to their jobs, and that facing pay cuts is horrendous. And, I undertstand a loss of faith in management who always seems to come back to the workforce for more. But quite frankly, I work hard too. I have ZERO desire to be stuck in Chicago, Denver, LA, or wherever, because a group of flight attendants decides to CHAOS my flight or others that affect it.
It's at this point that everything else goes out the window. The traveler wants to dedicate budgeted travel dollars to carriers who will get him or her from point A to point B and back again with some measure of reliability. If there isn't that reliability, he or she simply selects another carrier. And you can have all the contracts, work rules, etc., that you want; but when the revenue stream begins to flow in other directions, nobody wins and nobody gets paid. And I'm not talking about the $168 transcon vacationer. I'm talking about savvy travelers who sometimes go out of their way to fly the airlines. Every airline has this group of people. The difference is now - as illustrated by the US debacle last weekend - the traveling public stops caring about labor-management woes when their flights are canceled. A strike at this airline would sure teach management a lesson. But it's a lesson that the traveler has no interest in hearing.
Good luck to all.
JAMAKE1 said:
It's the equivilent of walking into a bank, putting a gun to your own head, and saying "give me money or I'll shoot". Glen Tilton won't miss a meal if you strike and UAL liquidates. Neither will Jake Brace. But I wonder with all the talk of how catastrophic it would be for the F/A's to take a $2 an hour pay cut, and I think back to a conversation I had with an F/A before BK. To paraphrase her words: "I'm a single mother, I can't afford a paycut. You take a bigger one". She was too old, too fat and too ugly to strip, and her attitude was too bad to do much of anything else. What will she do? This is the real deal. there aren't any secret accounts. The whisper is that the company has the funds lined up, ready to go, if the requested amount of concessions come through. The smart route? Make a deal that gets the company out of BK. Throw in some "poison pills" that forces them to get it doen and get out of BK. the in two years, when the companynhas time to build up cash, demand some of it. But putting a gun to your own head at this point is beyond stupid.
spacewaitress
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Anyone have the timeline for when, at the earliest, the judge may abrogate. Aren't arguments supposed to be presented at the end of this week...6th or 7th?
shinbal said:
This is right on the money Shin. The problem is that the union is a business. They get their money from the workers they keep on the property. So to throw out the work rule and increases the productivity (which is what UA needs to do), would be like cutting off their own foot. The "old" mantra is "Strike" and bring them to their knees, This is what Rick Dubinsky did, and look where it got the company. The flying public could care less what they are paid, as you say they want to get from A to B and back again and I would be willing to bet you there are quite a few who will never fly USAir even if they are still around.
