SWA Contract

[Duke787]

Sounds great, wcs, but that's all spin from both the company and the union. Of course AA is going to tout in-house. They have no alternative.

Since there isn't sufficient OH capability available to handle AA's fleet per Bob, then call the company's bluff already. Agree to lifting the outsourcing caps. If the quality really is better and cost competitive, then you have nothing to fear, right?

Exactly, we should accept the SWA contract, OH has nothing to fear.

 

[paul1]

<_< ------- Wopey!!! So the Airlines get a lot of free advertising in exchange for an interview, for a min. wage job, that they can walk way from any time! 😉

then don't take the job go elsewhere

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Paul, I don't need the job! Thank God! I'm retired from TWA/AA.----- But I'm sure they'll get "some" takers, but nothing meaningful in number. Those who would consider taking it, for the most part, will be young, and frankly, inexperienced, newbies!------ Eagel will get it's good PR. and may not even hire anyone. So what's the big deal?

 

[Duke787]

AM I the only willing to take the SWA contract, if you want the pay you might have to sacrifice work rules, other wise we'll just get the CAL deal.

 

[Bob Owens]

over the years the Company has said they would give us the SWA contract if the union would agree to it, and lately it was ditto for the CAL contract...............just accept it. One then needs to look at that seriously and understand what that would bring to the fore. Owens is wrong on the farm out of overhaul. All the other carriers that have farmed out overhaul, slashed staff and facilities. Look at the UAL situation in SFO, a very large facility, that now has under utilization and plenty of parking in the employee lot. Then there is the INDY facility that United built that is now an overhaul facility for some of the legacy carriers, and looking for more. I think Danny Martinez runs it. So be careful what you ask for.

UAL didnt have OSMs.

When AA started the SRP program back in 1995 they were able to slowly blend in a huge cost advantage over competitors. They pulled in their SRPs over time and replaced fully paid mechs in shops with workers at half the wage. The quality did go down, we had lots of "bad from stock" parts, but I guess at half pay they felt could afford to do a large percentage twice and still save money.

Now comes 2002. AA has had their SRP/OSM plan in for seven years and the industry is in bad shape following the 2001 recession and 9-11 attacks (people seem to forget that the number of passengers on all four planes added up to the capacity of a single 767). The airlines actually start increasing capacity and not only recall workers laid off after 9-11 but hire new workers despite low load factors and burn off huge amounts of cash, and build up huge amounts of debt, then use that to run into BK courts to abrogate contracts with their Unions.

AA gets pretty much all the concessions those carriers got without going BK. But UAL and others still dont have OSMs, they already cut their workers pay, but in order to match AAs costs they would need to cut all their shop workers pay again. Well, how much productivity do you think they would have gotten out of a guy that used to make $35/hr who is now earning less than half that? They had no choice, if they wanted to compete with AA they had to shed that work completely. So they did.

AA had been enjoying paying MRO rates to shop workers for six years prior to 9-11.

I never said that other carriers didnt slash heads, dump facilities and farm out work, I said that UALs maint costs went up when they did. From what I hear most of those carriers that dumped most of their OH are trying to bring work back in but their recalls have moved on as well. Everyone I know in the industry is working more OT than ever before.

Nine years later. Half the A&P schools in the country have closed due to poor enrollment. Half the A&Ps in the industry have permanently left the industry with no intentions on returning. The MROs are desperately trying to get workers with the skillsets they need to provide the service they sell. AAR claims they are looking for between 10 and 30 mechanics a week. Thats nearly half of all the A&Ps this country produces in a year. Manufacturers like Boeing need mechanics as well to fulfill Military and Comercial contracts. Outfits like Panasonic and Pratt And Whitney are recruiting kids out of the few schools that are left with a starting wage of $26/hr, Pratt Offers 100% tuition reimbursement for any degree of choice along with a full benifits package, AA is offering $14.75 with no benifits for a year and only one week of vacation for the first five years.

AS AAR has to increase what they pay mechanics in order to attract mechanics they will pass those costs on to the Airlines. Sure they can ship some more work overseas but most of the growth in Aviation is predicted to take place in those same regions where US Carriers ship their work to. They are honing their skills and making their mistakes on the aircraft they send back here and as they grow they will do like AA usually does with their 3P work, say "thanks but no thanks take it somewhere else", or charge through the nose.

FWAAA says that I havent proved that AA saves money by doing it in house, but he hasnt proved that they dont. Absolute numbers dont tell the story because every airline is difrerent. Did AA spend more than any other carrier on maint last year? maybe, I wont dispute that if they produce figures but then the question is why? Was it because of all the mods such as winglets and Maui etc? One time costs that are investments to save fuel? Was the labor costs in house higher than what a vendor would have charged to do the work? The fact is that AA's own behaviour is a better indicator of the truth than any of those figures. AA has chosen to bring work back in house that they dint have to. Why would they do that unless it was cheaper?

 

[lineguy43]

UAL didnt have OSMs.

When AA started the SRP program back in 1995 they were able to slowly blend in a huge cost advantage over competitors. They pulled in their SRPs over time and replaced fully paid mechs in shops with workers at half the wage. The quality did go down, we had lots of "bad from stock" parts, but I guess at half pay they felt could afford to do a large percentage twice and still save money.

Now comes 2002. AA has had their SRP/OSM plan in for seven years and the industry is in bad shape following the 2001 recession and 9-11 attacks (people seem to forget that the number of passengers on all four planes added up to the capacity of a single 767). The airlines actually start increasing capacity and not only recall workers laid off after 9-11 but hire new workers despite low load factors and burn off huge amounts of cash, and build up huge amounts of debt, then use that to run into BK courts to abrogate contracts with their Unions.

AA gets pretty much all the concessions those carriers got without going BK. But UAL and others still dont have OSMs, they already cut their workers pay, but in order to match AAs costs they would need to cut all their shop workers pay again. Well, how much productivity do you think they would have gotten out of a guy that used to make $35/hr who is now earning less than half that? They had no choice, if they wanted to compete with AA they had to shed that work completely. So they did.

AA had been enjoying paying MRO rates to shop workers for six years prior to 9-11.

I never said that other carriers didnt slash heads, dump facilities and farm out work, I said that UALs maint costs went up when they did. From what I hear most of those carriers that dumped most of their OH are trying to bring work back in but their recalls have moved on as well. Everyone I know in the industry is working more OT than ever before.

Nine years later. Half the A&P schools in the country have closed due to poor enrollment. Half the A&Ps in the industry have permanently left the industry with no intentions on returning. The MROs are desperately trying to get workers with the skillsets they need to provide the service they sell. AAR claims they are looking for between 10 and 30 mechanics a week. Thats nearly half of all the A&Ps this country produces in a year. Manufacturers like Boeing need mechanics as well to fulfill Military and Comercial contracts. Outfits like Panasonic and Pratt And Whitney are recruiting kids out of the few schools that are left with a starting wage of $26/hr, Pratt Offers 100% tuition reimbursement for any degree of choice along with a full benifits package, AA is offering $14.75 with no benifits for a year and only one week of vacation for the first five years.

AS AAR has to increase what they pay mechanics in order to attract mechanics they will pass those costs on to the Airlines. Sure they can ship some more work overseas but most of the growth in Aviation is predicted to take place in those same regions where US Carriers ship their work to. They are honing their skills and making their mistakes on the aircraft they send back here and as they grow they will do like AA usually does with their 3P work, say "thanks but no thanks take it somewhere else", or charge through the nose.

FWAAA says that I havent proved that AA saves money by doing it in house, but he hasnt proved that they dont. Absolute numbers dont tell the story because every airline is difrerent. Did AA spend more than any other carrier on maint last year? maybe, I wont dispute that if they produce figures but then the question is why? Was it because of all the mods such as winglets and Maui etc? One time costs that are investments to save fuel? Was the labor costs in house higher than what a vendor would have charged to do the work? The fact is that AA's own behaviour is a better indicator of the truth than any of those figures. AA has chosen to bring work back in house that they dint have to. Why would they do that unless it was cheaper?

Bob I enjoy your posts and you bring some sanity to some of the posters on here...But I cannot take it anymore....it is BENEFITS...Not Benifits..