Talks get serious between UAL/CO- Where is US in all this?

[PA18]

What I'm curious to know is this: assuming there is some kind of a transaction involving AA and US in the future, would the US employees be willing to give up some of their seniority (stapled?) in return for working for a company like AA/AMR?

History would suggest that one US employee group would: the East pilots.

It only took nine of them to give away their pension under the phony threat of losing their jobs. And a majority of them took the bait not once, but several times in bankruptcy, when Siegel, Glass, and Co. realized they were leaving money on the table, and the East pilots could still be scared into giving up more.

They won't have a chance against APA. The "sign this or lose your job" ploy that that AA used on the TWA employees will have the East pilots fighting each other for the pen so they can hurry up and sign it first.

Whether it's ALPA or USAPA, it won't matter. A union is only as strong as its weakest member.

Need I say more?

 

[tahitigirl]

With the Delta/NW merger looking more likely could UA and CO be meeting not to plan a merger but to figure out what parts of US they want. Wouldn't it be easy to split US up and sale us in two parts, one to CO and the other to UA?

 

[PITbull]

Are you kidding??????????????????????? :huh:

We've been discussing this for weeks, even months, on these boards. With all these threads about US merging with UA, I for one have been saying all along that NW, DL, CO, and UA will be the players in this round of consolidation, and US will be on the sidelines fighting it's civil war between East & West. It's been a well known fact that if DL chose NW, then UA would hook up with CO. In fact (for the ump-teenth time) UA and CO had extensive discussions last year during US flailed attempted takeover of DL.

How could this possibly come as a surprise to you?

I just don't eat, drink and sleep this stuff anymore.

I kicked the habit.

 

[deltawatch]

The Street.com Link

 

[700UW]

IF UA and CO hookup you would see the DOJ have them divest of flights since they fly so many of the same flights from JFK, EWR and LGA.

 

[TechBoy]

IF UA and CO hookup you would see the DOJ have them divest of flights since they fly so many of the same flights from JFK, EWR and LGA.

Huh? UA has almost no meaningful presence in the NYC market, except for hub flights. That is the reason that they are so interested in CO. I can't see what divestitures would be required.

 

[ZMAN777]

With the Delta/NW merger looking more likely could UA and CO be meeting not to plan a merger but to figure out what parts of US they want. Wouldn't it be easy to split US up and sale us in two parts, one to CO and the other to UA?

Tahitigirl,

You're kidding, right? This isn't about carving up the U.S. domestic market, it's about world-wide international presence and the leverage such a dominating schedule can bring to an alliance. LCC brings almost nothing to the table in this regard. Cold hard facts for sure, but facts nonetheless. LCC isn't a player in this round. They don't even qualify for a seat at the table.

Cheers,
Z

 

[PHL]

Even going by the assumption that UAL/CO and NW/DL actually happen, AA would have no use for LCC. They might even bet on LCC ultimately failing and pick some of the pieces up in a fire sale.

 

[700UW]

Huh? UA has almost no meaningful presence in the NYC market, except for hub flights. That is the reason that they are so interested in CO. I can't see what divestitures would be required.

EWR to Europe and JFK to Europe, and they both do run EWR to LHR/LGW.

EWR and LGA to DEN.

EWR to the West Coast.

 

[luv2fly]

Even going by the assumption that UAL/CO and NW/DL actually happen, AA would have no use for LCC. They might even bet on LCC ultimately failing and pick some of the pieces up in a fire sale.

Exactly. AA can afford to sit this out. LCC, not so much. LCC simply doesn't have the international presence to be of any real value to anyone.
Parker wanted consolidation. Looks like he is going to get his wish with one big exception of course. He isn't going to be a participant.
You have to wonder if this whole scenario wasn't part of his reasoning last year with the failed DL takevover. The two airlines had a gross amount of overlap but the attempt would have accomplished two major tasks. It would have eliminated his biggest competitor and it would have instantly given him a pawn in any future consolidation board games.

 

[ZMAN777]

EWR to Europe and JFK to Europe, and they both do run EWR to LHR/LGW.

EWR and LGA to DEN.

EWR to the West Coast.

700UW,

Time for you to check your facts. I challenge you (use the internet if you must!) to name 1 (one) flight UAL has out of either EWR/JFK to Europe. Now, several years ago UAL had a number of flights to LHR out of EWR/JFK and even flights to NRT out of the New York area. No longer.

You are right about flights to DEN. Big deal. As was stated earlier, very little overlap in the NYC area.

Cheers,
Z B)

 

[TravelDude]

I think most US employees would not want another merger, especially considering the US/HP is far from complete. But Doug had made clear he wants US to become larger. So if merger is in the future I ask the question to the fellow people reading this forum who would you like to see US merge with if DL/NW and UA/CO link up.

After you vote, if you want, make the argument in a post as to why you believe airline __ is the best choice for US to merger with.

 

[PHL]

EWR to Europe and JFK to Europe, and they both do run EWR to LHR/LGW.

EWR and LGA to DEN.

EWR to the West Coast.

They don't fly any intl flights from JFK anymore. They have had some very prestigious routes from JFK, though (NRT, HKG, EZE, LHR, etc.) I recall that when they flew JFK-HKG it was the longest route at the time.

Their JFK to West coast service is their P.S., which I don't suspect would go away, and I don't think they would have to divest CO routes to those cities from EWR.

UA flights from JFK:
SFO
LAX
IAD (UAX)

from EWR:
ORD
SFO
LAX
DEN
IAD (UAX)

As said already, there is very little overlap in the NY market between CO and UA. All the Euro flying could stay in tact, which is huge plus.

 

[NCFL]

You should have included Eastern or Braniff as choices. I'd vote for one of those as the airline whose company US will be joining.

 

[Pacemaker]

Exactly. AA can afford to sit this out. LCC, not so much. LCC simply doesn't have the international presence to be of any real value to anyone.
Parker wanted consolidation. Looks like he is going to get his wish with one big exception of course. He isn't going to be a participant.
You have to wonder if this whole scenario wasn't part of his reasoning last year with the failed DL takevover. The two airlines had a gross amount of overlap but the attempt would have accomplished two major tasks. It would have eliminated his biggest competitor and it would have instantly given him a pawn in any future consolidation board games.

10 years ago then-CEO Wolf basically said that there was no place in the industry for a stand-alone USAir; I don't think that's changed.