terms of DL-DALPA tentative agreement released.

[jcw]

the world doesn't revolve around you.

That's a rich statement

 

[eolesen]

You want to know what else has never has been a successful strategy .... deliberately taking a post out of context to fit your narrative - most especially when it exposes your own hypocrisy as you're taking 700 to task on in an adjacent thread.

Yep. Deflection is almost as successful as simply yelling louder when it's clear you've already lost the argument...

 

[WorldTraveler]

and yet we have how many pages here of people trying to discredit that DL got a TA with its pilots early that very likely will result in higher, not lower pay for ALL DL people

pretty hard to deny that reality though some will certainly try.

 

[robbedagain]

I was very surprised to see DL pilots get a TA so early on when it usually takes yrs.   On the other hand higher pay for other work groups will result in lower PS as has been shown by other posters 

 

[WorldTraveler]

the last TA (2012) was early.

No, no one has shown anything.

They have made an accusation when the only other instance - 2012 - when reduced PERCENTAGE of profit sharing came with even larger amounts of profit sharing per employee PLUS pay raises.

 

[700UW]

http://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/061515/deltas-pilot-deal-good-both-sides-dal.aspx
 
If profit sharing is so good, why did ALPA agree for big raises and cuts on Profit Sharing?
 

Trading pay for profit-sharing
The other key change incorporated in the new pilot agreement is a shift toward higher fixed compensation and lower profit-sharing payouts. Currently, Delta pays out 10% of its first $2.5 billion in annual adjusted pre-tax profit as profit-sharing, and then pays 20% of pre-tax profit above that level.
 
This $2.5 billion cutoff probably made sense when Delta signed its last new pilot agreement in 2012. In that year, Delta's adjusted profit before profit-sharing was less than $2 billion, which made surpassing $2.5 billion seem like a good goal.
 
By contrast, in 2014, Delta earned an adjusted pre-tax profit of $4.5 billion after profit-sharing. Delta is on pace to post even higher earnings in 2015, despite enduring about $2 billion in fuel hedging losses, and analysts expect Delta to grow EPS by more than 20% again in 2016.
 
As a result, Delta's management wanted to significantly raise the target for higher profit-sharing payouts. If pilots ratify the new contract, the 20% profit-sharing level will only cover pre-tax profit above $6 billion, according to The Wall Street Journal.
 
In exchange, Delta pilots will get significant wage increases. Pilots will get an 8% raise on July 1 if they ratify the contract, followed by a 6% raise at the beginning of 2016, and 3% raises in each of the following two years.
 
 

 

[jcw]

It's a tough one when the 1000 posts of profit sharing are out the window with the pilots agreement

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL employees - all of them - will still end up with more profit sharing than AA employees and likely more than even WN employees.

Yes, profit sharing is good.

the reason why some of you work so hard to destroy everything about it is because you don't get any of it.

Jealousy is a powerful motivator in the worst ways.

DL employees have led the industry in growth in compensation of which profit sharing is a big part.

DL pilots - and likely eventually other employees - are simply converting some of that profit sharing into an EQUIVALENT amount of base pay.

The notion that DL employees will lose anything with the conversion is as inaccurate as the charges that DL employees lost with the last change ot profit sharing - which left DL employees with more money in their checks.

DL employees don't care about how the profit sharing is calculated. They do care about how much money they receive... and that number has been growing faster than at any airline and it is doubtful that will change.

 

[jcw]

Can everyone say tough one - profit sharing was just gutted

 

[WorldTraveler]

and base salaries soared by the same amount... if the TA passes.

DL pilots will lead the industry in total compensation and DL non-pilot personnel will likely do the same.

for yet another year.

 

[jcw]

You can rationalize it all you want - however the double standard is on full display - if profit sharing is so great for the employee no one would be asking for it to be cut

Really tough one

Let's take bets on the word count on the response

 

[WorldTraveler]

The question for you is why would anyone not take 100% of their pay in profit sharing or any other incentive pay.

You can't seem to find balance between profit sharing and base pay. We are not surprised you can't find balance but if you have or ever will receive ANY incentive pay of any kind then you blow your own argument.

Operational rewards, sales awards? anything?

DL has simply chosen to change the composition of the total pie and their total salary has still gone up.

you can't stand that reality of higher pay so you attack anything.

DL employees have seen larger increases in total compensation and are higher paid than their legacy peers.

That's really tough for those who stand in envy on the outside attacking what DL and its people have accomplished.

 

[jcw]

Once again if profit sharing is so great why would you trade it away - if it's so great you would be increasing profit sharing over salary - remind us how much profit sharing employees will get when DL has an annual loss during the next cycle

 

[WorldTraveler]

There's nothing being LOST - which is what you want to believe is happening - by fairly TRADING pay that will get to the employee at most 2X per year for something that the employee gets every paycheck.

Some people might trade lower annual compensation for having more in their pocket every month - that is what AA is doing - but the total compensation at DL and WN is higher and will continue to rise because DL and WN keep a part of the compensation in variable pay.

it's not a hard concept for any one who wants to stop arguing to understand.

Higher total compensation but part of it not received as frequently.

All that is taking place is shifting how much goes in each bucket. Both forms of compensation are still higher than at other airlines including AA.

Quit trying to argue there is anything being lost because that isn't happening.

 

[jcw]

If you believe in higher total comp now as your measurement then if you get total higher comp through various components then profit sharing is not critical then to total comp - if another set of pilots choose to get paid all in salary and have higher total comp they are better off

You are the one that changed metrics from profit sharing to total compensation - can't have it both ways

Remind us again - when DL has its next annual loss how much will each pilot get in profit sharing?