The Fear Tactics Will Continue

proAMFA

Senior
Sep 28, 2003
286
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The TWU being unable to win support with their dismal record will continue to try and scare the membership into loyalty. An example of this is a recent propaganda piece in In Solidarity by Kevin Gorremans. He tells how AMFA at NWA gave away job protections and how approximately 50% have lost their jobs.

If AMFA gave away job protections why did Northwest have to resort to using a force majure to get around the restraints of their contract with AMFA? If AMFA gave away job protections Northwest would not have to defend their actions in front of an Arbitrator. AMFA did not give away job protections, Northwest is the only airline with a defined limit on outsourcing. If AMFA gave away job protections and 50% have been forced from their jobs why is AMFA still there? Why can’t the IAM oust AMFA? The fact of the matter is Northwest has a lower headcount because of many reasons; retirements, people deciding to stay where they are at rather than moving and taking positions elsewhere, and yes because of layoffs caused by 9/11. AMFA fought layoffs, the TWU did not. The number the TWU supporters throw around is a cumulative number and is closer to 35%. If you were to count the same way at American our total would appear large also. Fact of the matter is no one seems to be able to get an honest answer from the TWU just how many people have been laid-off here and how much work is outsourced. The TWU’s not going to give it to you. We find out about outsourcing, real-time, as it occurs and usually have to tell the TWU that it’s happening. We have had a lot of retirements in the last year also. Another factor in our headcount is the TWA workers being integrated into American in 2001. Anyone care to figure how many started with us in 2001 and how many are still here?

The article mentions how bad things are at Alaska yet neglects to mention that AMFA at Alaska got its members a 5% pay raise while other airlines (like American) were reducing benefits and wages by as much as 30%. At least AMFA negotiated at Alaska; the TWU did not at American last year. The TWU took what was offered. If the TWU had had the courage to speak up maybe we’d have the same amount of holidays off as management and title 1 would have the same sick day coverage as the rest of the title groups.
Concerning the slogans I believe the writer is attempting to call AMFA elitist. I have never heard the other work groups called splinter groups. At United AMFA is suing the company over the right to represent the fuelers. Why would they spend the time and money doing this if they didn’t believe they deserved AMFA representation? The cleaners at NWA make more than our cleaners. The cleaners at NWA received a 13% raise in their last contract. Here the cleaners received less and gave it all back and then some a year later.

I don’t know if Kevin McCormick sells real estate and frankly I don’t care. What I care about is bang for the buck, good representation, and I’m ready to pay dues to whoever can get the job accomplished. I don’t know how much the TWU pays for their office in Manhattan but I’m sure its more than AMFA’s office space in Laconia.
The writer talks about how bad AMFA has represented its members and calls AMFA an “Internet Schemeâ€. If it’s a scheme it’s a pretty good scheme. Not one group of AMFA represented airline workers wants to dump AMFA, not even NWA. The mechanics at American Eagle attempted to dump the TWU in 2000 but head count was added to the class and craft by adding the workers at a heavy maintenance base in Michigan and the election was denied. I am told this base is no longer part of AE.
AMFA represents workers at 8 airlines and all of them except NWA have had fewer people laid-off then American. In fact the head count has increased at Southwest and ACA. None of AMFA’s members have had their pay and benefits cut.

As long as the TWU’s position is in jeopardy the scare tactics will grow louder and louder. Don’t look to the future with despair look toward the future with excitement and hope. It’s an honorable profession to maintain aircraft and assure the safety of the flying public.

With AMFA we get hope for a better future in our craft
With the TWU we get scare tactics
 
proAMFA, I agree with your synopsis and believe one of the twuscrews will be to say "We talked it over with the company and if AMFA comes in they will cut 10,000 heads". My predictions come from UAL where Scotty Ford (the then president) said a similar phrase that the company would file Chapter 7 (liquidation) of the airline if AMFA came in. Although this did not come close to even slowing down the labor movement, it does show desperation and fear at it's peak. We can start looking for these death throw signs here in the very near future!!!
 
You amfa wannbes rely on TWU's past "performances" to help dictate what will happen in the future and think you have valid points. . .BUT, when the TWU supporters do the same with amfa we are spewing lies and fear tactics!!!

HYPOCRIOCY AT IT'S BEST!!!!
GO amfa!!!!!!!!!!!
 
twu's past performances continue to always be the same "CONCESSIONS" there is no change with this inept company lap dog union. on the other hand AMFA's track record speaks for its self and continues to grow in strength. can 8 other carriers all be wrong? why do we see no vigorous card drives taking place with the industrial dues collection agencys within the airline industry? the answer is quite simple because they have failed miserably to represent the mechanics and they are all being tossed out on thier BUTT'S. AMFA is gaining steam and will soon represent 9 carriers :up: :up: :up:
 
twuer said:
You amfa wannbes rely on TWU's past "performances" to help dictate what will happen in the future and think you have valid points. . .BUT, when the TWU supporters do the same with amfa we are spewing lies and fear tactics!!!

dic·ta·tor·ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dk-ttr-shp, dkt-)
n.

1. twu
2 .The office or tenure of a dictator.
3. A state or government under dictatorial rule.
4. Absolute or despotic control or power.
 
dic·ta·tor·ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dk-ttr-shp, dkt-)
n.

1. Amfa Delle
2 .The office or tenure of a dictator.
3. A state or government under dictatorial rule.
4. Absolute or despotic control or power.

This is the future under amfa, all you have to do is look at the proposals delle has outlined for proposed changes to their constitution!

Amfa where you have no voice in the decission making!
 
cio, rather than spewing empty innuendos, why not show the link to Delle's proposals. These proposals may or may not come back from the convention in this form and may or may not be changed. After careful review I think they are pretty decent but, the membership from all the airlines under AMFA will vote to accept or reject any proposals made.

Delle's proposals

Now cio, how would the twu compare, would there be a vote of the membership or would Sonny Hall dictate the means and the results???????????????????????

Article 5 Section 16 of the AMFA constitution.
 
twuer said:
[HYPOCRIOCY AT IT'S BEST!!!!
Dont be so modest.

If you want to see hypocrisy at its best you know you have to look no further than the TWU.

Just read the minutes from the last TWU Constitutional Convention. Look at how Sonny Hall says over and over again how its a Democratic union, then calls for TWO Aye votes and declares that the AYES have it, when asked by the delegation "which ayes" he says that he decides.

Look at how when his little smear campain to label Local 100s leadership as "friends of Bin Laden" backfires he swears that he had nothing to do with it and that he will punish those responsible.

No you dont have to look far and at least you now have one thing that you can claim that the TWU excells at, hypocrisy.
 
Bob, I believe you were one of the few that seen a different version then everyone else!

Did you not have an opportunity to vote during the convention?

Did you not have an opportunity to interview the potential officers who ran for a position?

Did the members of your local vote to have you attend the convention?

I believe they entrusted you to make a conscious decision to represent their best interest? And I believe you have failed to properly represent their best interest! One, by coming here and complaining because the majority voted a different way than what you wanted!

Get over it! The majority makes the decisions not the minority!
Just as The majority have chosen NOT to sign an Amfa card at AA!

You and the Amfa dreamers have an opportunity in the near future to either lick their wounds or channel their energy in representing the members of the TWU! It's easy to organize! You have no accountability! It's something else to represent the member’s best interest in front of AA!
 
cio, how does the membership know if a delegate votes on issues they desire??? Are you trying to say one delegate representing 500 people or more only votes on issues that all 500 agree on???? Get a life dude, there is no way! The only fair thing is to have the membership vote on each and every issue. No matter how you spin your wheel this will always end up pointing up to AMFA as the winner unless you are going to try and "change from within" and then refer back to dictatorship.

You and the Amfa dreamers have an opportunity in the near future to either lick their wounds or channel their energy in representing the members of the TWU! It's easy to organize! You have no accountability! It's something else to represent the member’s best interest in front of AA!

You never did answer my question cio. If it is so easy to orginize then why is the afl-cio twu shrinking instead of growing???

Article 5 Section 16 of the AMFA constitution.
 
Bob, I believe you were one of the few that seen a different version then everyone else!


So are you denying that Sonny Hall called for two Aye votes instead of Aye and Nay?

Are you denying the Friends of Bin Laden stunt?


Did you not have an opportunity to vote during the convention?


I was a delegate and in that capacity I was able to vote. However the membership does not have the right to vote and they dont even have the ability to get documentation that shows how the delegates vote. This creates an immense barrier to change. However the International, since they had cameras recording the event has the ability to identify anyone who is not towing the International line.

Did you not have an opportunity to interview the potential officers who ran for a position?

Interview, no.

Did the members of your local vote to have you attend the convention?

The problem is once they pick someone they have no way of checking to see how they, or other delegates voted.

I believe they entrusted you to make a conscious decision to represent their best interest?

Did they have a choice? They were denied the right to do that themselves. Shouldnt the members be allowed to decide for themselves who runs their union and decide what is in their best interests?

And I believe you have failed to properly represent their best interest!

Well my coworkers feel differently, remember they elected me twice by an overwhelming majority, it was the International that removed me because I was making things uncomfortable for them and you. Thing will get even more uncomfortable once the voting starts and the members are finally given a choice.

One, by coming here and complaining because the majority voted a different way than what you wanted!

We dont even know if that is true. Many members still claim that they never recieved a ballott. It would be interesting to see if a vote was cast in their names since the International switched voting companies from CCC to AAA, with Anne McNamara on the board, who issued ballotts in sequential order. It is quite possible that International officers may have cast many of those ballotts without the proper recipient ever getting a ballott. And even if the majority did indeed vote yes, I feel that they were misinformed by the union and its officials who collect three million dollars a year from the company. Three million that most certainly would have been cut off if the International was not successful in getting the company everything they demanded.

Even if it was all legit, my members voted by over 90% to reject. Are you saying that their opinions and feelings should be ignored, silenced because the majority in Tulsa and MCI voted yes? Are you saying that the minority has no rights?


Get over it! The majority makes the decisions not the minority!

Like I just said. Are you saying that the needs of the minority do not matter? If 90% of the line rejected the agreement but overhaul voted it in are you saying that its just too bad? When the line works under different conditions and faces different economic circumstances, and the leadership of overhaul resists attempts by the line to share their concerns with their "brothers" they should just sit back and support a system that feels that since they are a minority that they have no say? That they should just sit back and accept what overhaul dictates to them without even being given the opportunity to address those members and appeal to their sense of fair play and brotherhood? Tell me why should line mechanics support such a system? A system that only harms them and denys them the right to share their opinions with all their "brothers". Is that your concept of unionism, that the few should permanently suffer because they are a minority? That the few should always sacrifice for the majority with nothing in return, not even the right to object?

Just as The majority have chosen NOT to sign an Amfa card at AA!

We shall see wont we? By the way have you noticed how the AGW card count is gaining momentum? Deny it all you want, but the members, not just the 30% of Tulsa that put you clowns into office, is about to speak.

You and the Amfa dreamers have an opportunity in the near future to either lick their wounds or channel their energy in representing the members of the TWU! It's easy to organize! You have no accountability! It's something else to represent the member’s best interest in front of AA!

And tell us how you embrace accountability. You wont even use your real name here. Tell us how is Jim Little is accountable to the members at AA, or Bobby Gless or Gary Yingst?
 
You and Ken and real big, no pun intended, on this "real name" thingy. How do I know you're really Bob Owens? Produce your waistline as proof or use another monicker.
 
Pro Amfa,
The best paragraph of the Gorremans article was the last. " AMFA is not a union, but rather an Internet scheme to make a profit off the backs of highly trained aviation maintenance technicians. The TWU agreements demonstrate that a real union can negotiate both wages and good job protection at the same time, no matter how tough the times.
:shock:
With propaganda as blatant as this, one can only wonder what they will say next.
Fool Me Once Shame on ME
Fool ME Twice Goodbye TWU
 
rick,

Get over it! The majority makes the decisions not the minority!
Just as The majority have chosen NOT to sign an Amfa card at AA!


The MAJORITY have signed cards for an election.

jl,

You and Ken and real big, no pun intended, on this "real name" thingy.

This "thingy" is called accountability. Judging from your posts it seems as if that and AMFA are two things you are fearful of or simply can not comprehend.
Continue to post your empty comments. It only shows the twu's ability to have their best speak on their behalf... of course from behind a "thingy".

The twu smells fear... and it is their own.

GO AMFA! :up:
 
Accountability? Like telling Chicago we'll debate then telling Tulsa no debate? Hey Ken, multiple people use this moniker/signin, doesn't that just make you sick? How can anyone be that unaccountable? The nerve.