The Loop Hole

justaumechanic

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Dec 15, 2003
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There exists a loop hole in the IAM contract that will allow the combined company to outsource the heavy maintenance on the Airbus and the Boeing fleets.

The IAM contract is very clear. All of the Airbus S checks and 50% of the 737 Q checks will be done in-house.

The loop hole that exists is very simple. The America West fleet of 737's and Airbus do not go thru Q checks or S checks. They are on Progressive C checks and HMV's.

It is a simple matter of converting the US fleet from the Q check and S check program to the former America West HMV program.. Very simple and does not violate the IAM contract.

See the IAM was dumb again. They did not state Heavy Maintenance. They wanted specific language that said S check and Q check..

If the IAM contract survives this is the loop hole the company will exploit. If the IBT contract survives then it's moot because that contract allows 100% outsourcing. Either way the leadership wins.. Lakefield bought labor peace in the short term. Uncle Al will snap it off in the long term and the IAM will be powerless to stop it.
 
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justaumechanic

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Dec 15, 2003
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Yes it is heavy but the contract does not say "heavy". It says "S" check and "Q" check.. That's the point of the post.

If it said "heavy" there would be no loop hole.. It is a simple matter of converting the check's to the AmericaWest program of Maintenance which is already under way.

Why do you think they signed a 5 year deal with Pittsburgh that contains a 1 year escape clause in it. If they were going to keep the S checks in house they would have signed on for the 15 year deal plus the 15 year option the county gave offered them.. Lakefied knew exactly what he was doing and Doug and Hal know exactly what they have to do.

Send in Uncle Al.

DUDE That is HEAVY. Thinking I Mean. Good Post for Thought's. MWW
 

AIRWOMAN

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Oct 20, 2005
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If I remember correctly, Hal Huele stated that the MX Program was going to be the east's and not the west's. I believe it had something to do with the fact that the east side has additional aircraft types that the west does not so it will be easier to put the west aircraft, which the east already operates, under the east's MX Program.

He also mentioned that when all the union issues are finally worked out and since it appears that the IAM contract will be the surviving contract (and please, don't anyone wig out on me because of my use of the word "appears"), the company will have a hard time completing the contractually obligated maintenance for a number of reasons - facilities being one of them. Possibly, and this is just speculation, the contract was signed for that length of time because the IAM contract appears to be/will be the surviving contract and it's up in 2009 and it usually takes a few years to finalize a new one........I can't take credit for that insight....it was passed on to me from one of my new friends from US Aviation. ;)
 
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justaumechanic

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Dec 15, 2003
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There are only two fleet types in question. The 737 and the Airbus. Everything else is already farmed out!

The point being that the IAM would be powerless to stop it. The company gets what it wants no matter which contract survives. Hal has nothing to do with who gets the work. The money people decide. The simple fact of the matter is it costs more money to do the work internally vs sending it to TIMCO or TACA.

People and lives do not matter to the company. Just the money does.

It will be a mixture of East and West dependent upon fleet. Each fleet has it's own program.
 

Phantom Fixer

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Oct 21, 2003
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According to Hal Huele....The goal is to keep all the Airbus Narrow body work In-House..as well as all the B737-300/400 work.

Hal is also saying the goal will be to bring in all the B757-200 work too.

According to Hal...we are one track short to do all of the above..so maybe the facility in PHX can be ramped up to cover that void? This could be a good thing in PHX...as more work creates more jobs.

Again...According to Hal Huele...the only work that will defineatly remain outsourced to 3rd party vendors...is the A330-300's and the B767-200ER's...I guess Air Canada Technical Services got their investments monies worth.

The company is also leaning toward returning to doing the seats in-house again...as vendoring this out has been a monumental flop on all levels.
 

delldude

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Oct 29, 2002
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the IAM contract will survive no matter who is representing and futhermore this subject has been previously been beaten to death.there is no loophole...west work will have to be dealt with the same as east work.

Scope does not specify airbus or 737 or heavy if you noticed.

show me where in the scope section that it specifies heavy or airbus or 737.

it is not listed as such.only the listed exceptions are agreed to.

when they get 190's mainline,they will be done inhouse by IAM.but it does not say that specifically in the scope,does it? thats because specific verbage is terribly limiting in legalese.all work mainline except what was listed elsewhere in the agreement(and not specifically in the scope) is the sole work of IAM personell.

hope this clarifies this specifically.

and the lawsuit won in federal court upholds and proves the power of the scope of the agreement ;)

also,when piedmont merged into U,their maintenance program was also moved under U's.

hope this helps shootdown any misconceptions you have regarding scope and covered work...
 

EricLv2Fish

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Aug 25, 2005
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There are only two fleet types in question. The 737 and the Airbus. Everything else is already farmed out!

I'm talking about the maintenance program itself, not who is going to perform the maintenance. What specifically is performed in each check and the intervals.
 

delldude

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According to Hal...we are one track short to do all of the above..so maybe the facility in PHX can be ramped up to cover that void? This could be a good thing in PHX...as more work creates more jobs.
remember in the not too distant past we at U accomplished more aircraft inhouse maintenance with more a/c than at present.several hangars/maint.facilities are no longer with us though.
 

EricLv2Fish

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Aug 25, 2005
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when they combine under one op certificate there will be only one FAA approved maintenance program. ;)

Can't argue with that...again my point is prior to having one maintenance program for the airline, West and East has maintenance programs for each fleet. Each fleet program has to be decided upon. For example will it be the East 757 maintnenace program or the West's 757 maintnenance program, the 319/320 East or West maintenance program, etc. Once that is decided, bridging the other program into the surviving program will occur. This is the details of how to get to one maintenance program. ;)
 

delldude

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Can't argue with that...again my point is prior to having one maintenance program for the airline, West and East has maintenance programs for each fleet. Each fleet program has to be decided upon. For example will it be the East 757 maintnenace program or the West's 757 maintnenance program, the 319/320 East or West maintenance program, etc. Once that is decided, bridging the other program into the surviving program will occur. This is the details of how to get to one maintenance program. ;)
and part of the reason they will merge certificates in several years rather than now.
 

EricLv2Fish

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Aug 25, 2005
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and part of the reason they will merge certificates in several years rather than now.

Yes, the bridging plan has to be inplace and that will take some time to accomplish. First step is to determine which maintnenance program (East or West) of each fleet type (each fleet type has it's own individual program) that are common between East and West and go with one. Probably makes sense to go with 757 East program since they have many more 757's and bridging will be less of an issue. East's 319/320s are much newer and most probably haven't been thru overhaul heavy check so West's program probably looks more attractive as They may even disect it even futher into specific checks not just fleet type as a whole. No guesses on the 737-300 fleet. 340/170s are no brainers since West doesn't have 340s/170s.
 
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justaumechanic

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Dec 15, 2003
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And your point is what?

If the scope language does not contain the Airbus S check or the 737 50% clause then what does it say? Read your contract.

If in fact the scope contains no limitations then guess what? They are free to do what they want when they want.

Your scope does contain specifics. This was demanded by the IAM. It will in turn bite them in the butt in the end.

And if you think Hal wants to bring anything in house think again. He has lead the fight at AmericaWest to keep the work out, he has been a big supporter of the work being done in Macon and at TACA..

The same was said to the people in GSO, INT, ROA, UCA, IND, SAN and of course TPA.. All were told the same thing. Oh we want to do this and we want to do that and we will never close you down just keep pumping out the work.. Give me a break.

There is no discussion about bringing back the seat shop. There is nothing in the contract that says they need to discuss it with the union. They can put the seats on the floor and assign anyone they want.. OH, wait a min.. Hmmm.. Arn't they doing that now in hangar 5? Did the company ask the union for permission? I don't think so.

Think again.. The cost in-house vs outsource is close to 20%.. The money people make the decision.. Don't be fooled. If Hal was such a big supporter of bringing all this work in-house then why has he led the fight to keep it out at AmericaWest? Answer that. I bet you can't..

Go ahead and Believe Gary and John in hangar 5. They will tell you whatever you want to hear so you will keep up the good work..

the IAM contract will survive no matter who is representing and futhermore this subject has been previously been beaten to death.there is no loophole...west work will have to be dealt with the same as east work.

Scope does not specify airbus or 737 or heavy if you noticed.

show me where in the scope section that it specifies heavy or airbus or 737.

it is not listed as such.only the listed exceptions are agreed to.

when they get 190's mainline,they will be done inhouse by IAM.but it does not say that specifically in the scope,does it? thats because specific verbage is terribly limiting in legalese.all work mainline except what was listed elsewhere in the agreement(and not specifically in the scope) is the sole work of IAM personell.

hope this clarifies this specifically.

and the lawsuit won in federal court upholds and proves the power of the scope of the agreement ;)

also,when piedmont merged into U,their maintenance program was also moved under U's.

hope this helps shootdown any misconceptions you have regarding scope and covered work...