The Screwings Continue one more week of vacation gone

MetalMover

Veteran
Sep 16, 2013
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2,448
AMFAinMIAMI said:
MetalMover
 
Do you think that this TWU/IAM alliance is going to work for your benefit?
 
Do you see either union making a difference?
 
What has either done for YOUR class and craft?
 
To stop this it's time for a change a new way of thinking.
 
It's not a time for us at AA to  say USAirways is making all the changes. 
 
WE the mechanics at both US/AA need to come together as one and work toward one goal a CBA that will now and in the future give us what we deserve and have enjoyed.
My answers are, respectively:
NO
NO
NOTHING
 

swamt

Veteran
Oct 23, 2010
12,478
4,835
Hey guys when SWA bought AT there were changes as well.  Some went with the way SWA does things and some were the way AT was doing things.  Rest assured the co will make changes that are the most efficient and cost effective.   SWA was pretty smart by moving all the AT employees to the SWA methods  (keeping the employees from going chaotic).  
It would be a waste of time and money to grieve something not covered by the CBA.  However, the unions could get together and discuss this with the co to see if they could try to work something out in order to keep it and please the employees after all the give backs they have already done.  Any good union leaders would still confront the company about this and at least try to explain to the co how this will effect the employees moral in the future as well as how it will increase sick calls and abuse...
 
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eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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As long as it is cost neutral, the company probably would consider tweaks. The company seems to have come to the realization that they had to increase headcount to cover all the flex vacation weeks people were taking. That's going to be a hard hurdle to overcome, especially if it is something that only a subset of one workgroup is looking to retain.

The other aspect is that people were being charged whatever their October salary was when it came to the flex weeks, but were being paid at their current salary when they'd take it. I never understood why that worked out as it did, but when you get more than you put in, it's also no longer cost neutral.
 

700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
37,637
19,488
NC
A lot of you are wrong.
 
At labor school, we went over a case of a company providing donuts for employees for years every day for breakfast.
 
The company stopped buying the donuts, the case went to arbitration and the union employees won.
 
Do you all actually understand "past practice"?
 


  •  


  • Independent past practice, not addressed by any contract language. Most often these are “benefits” that workers take for granted and so were not included in the contract.

  • Example: There have always been vending machines in the cafeteria and free parking in the company lot. Management cannot just do away with these benefits.

  • Management can terminate independent past practices under three conditions:

  • It can prove the original conditions that started the practice have changed significantly.

  • It can prove significant ongoing employee abuse of the practice.

  • It notifies the union during contract negotiations that it will end the practice during the next contract.

  • Even in the first two situations, the employer must bargain with the union before ending the practice.

  • Most arbitrators will not extend these past practice rights to work methods.
    An example: Management wants workers to run three machines instead of two, claiming new technology makes them easier to run. The union probably cannot claim it is a past practice that workers run only two machines. However, the union can demand that management bargain over a change in working conditions.
  • - See more at: http://www.labornotes.org/2008/12/understanding-and-defending-past-practices#sthash.dyZ5P7PO.dpuf

 
 
 
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Realityck

Veteran
Jun 5, 2012
503
171
skydrol said:
Almost spewed coffee out of my nose, sure rely on the contract and grievance with the union.
Let me tell you the outcome.
1.they can do that brother
2.our hands are tied.
3.better pick your battles wisely.
4.we will get them next time.
5.we are going to put our hands in their pockets and get some of that money.
Thank you for starting my day with a healthy laug
 
 
 
Sorry to disappoint you genius, but the Int'l has already filed a 29D on the issue.  
 

AMFAinMIAMI

Veteran
Jun 22, 2012
1,689
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Miami, Fl.
Realityck said:
 
 
 
Sorry to disappoint you genius, but the Int'l has already filed a 29D on the issue.  
Realityck
 
That is a mute gesture by this lame union, if the TWU did something about all the things aa took from us over the yrs then we would not be in the position we are in, More people would not want the TWU gone. But that is not the case the TWU has failed the membership.
 
It's a gesture to some what curb the possibility of the Tulsa mechanics signing cards to shed the TWU. Since from what some have said here the is little to no CS's in T-Town.
The line stations have a great CS policy. So the need to buy flex is not that big of a deal for most, MHO.
 
If the company can take away CS's, Flight privileges, for punishment and the ability to use future vacation as a  PV days, what's to keep them from changing the flex vacation ability?
 
The TWU has allowed the company to take so many things from us over the yrs, No Past practice was used to keep it or get it back. 
 
The TWU didn't fight the contract changes which took Holidays, Vacation, 2.5 pay for holidays, sick time, doing away with retirement medical plan, pension. They let them give our Pre-fund money back and say we don't provide that any more. They don't wash our uniforms any more. You actually think letting you buy time off is some thing they can't do away with. What about early starts, or penalty hours, paid lunches.
 
All of you know what we have lost as TWU members, you can all add to the list of things we as a union did not fight for. Being able to buy flex is just one more thing the company is going to do away with. They take work to other countries and the TWU doesn't say we did that for yrs, its our work and fight it. Past practice rules. HA...
 

eolesen

Veteran
Jul 23, 2003
15,736
9,347
700UW said:
At labor school, we went over a case of a company providing donuts for employees for years every day for breakfast.
 
The company stopped buying the donuts, the case went to arbitration and the union employees won.
Source or name of the company that lost the arbitration, please.

I'm sure that there was no bias at labor school...
 
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skydrol

Advanced
Oct 19, 2003
158
58
Realityck said:
Sorry to disappoint you genius, but the Int'l has already filed a 29D on the issue.  
Wow you got me. I believe you are premature busting out your snake shirt with your skull and crossbones cap. Let's just watch the International in action. I am fairly certain I am accurate what the outcome is going to be. Time will tell.
 
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swamt

Veteran
Oct 23, 2010
12,478
4,835
700UW said:
 
A lot of you are wrong.
 
At labor school, we went over a case of a company providing donuts for employees for years every day for breakfast.
 
The company stopped buying the donuts, the case went to arbitration and the union employees won.
 
Do you all actually understand "past practice"?
 


  •  

 
"past practice"  Is never a givin.  Are you really involved in union nego's and grievence proceedures??
 

swamt

Veteran
Oct 23, 2010
12,478
4,835
skydrol said:
Wow you got me. I believe you are premature busting out your snake shirt with your skull and crossbones cap. Let's just watch the International in action. I am fairly certain I am accurate what the outcome is going to be. Time will tell.
Yes it will. And you will, more than likely be correct at the end...
 

700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
37,637
19,488
NC
swamt said:
"past practice"  Is never a givin.  Are you really involved in union nego's and grievence proceedures??
Nothing is a given, even a contractual language grievance.
 
And its amazing how blind some people are and cant even understand black and white.
 
Past Practice is a recognized thing in the grievance procedure.
 
And you cant even absorb it when its in front of you?
 
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700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
37,637
19,488
NC
eolesen said:
Source or name of the company that lost the arbitration, please.

I'm sure that there was no bias at labor school...
The class was an arbitration class given at the WWW Center, the class was accredited and we got college credits for it, it was over 20 years ago, so I dont have a link to it.
 
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Aug 20, 2002
10,142
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www.usaviation.com
The solution is simple.
eolesen is half right, and the ol' BEAR is half right.
 
For example.  STOP buying a flex week.
Put $$ aside from Jan thru JULY to replace the lost salary,...THEN.....CALL in SICK for a whole F'n WEEK, resulting in ONLY one occurance
 
SEE, I told you it was simple.
Now get half your shift to do it, then watch the flex come roaring back  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That way there EVERYONE gets the week off in the Summer in July/AUG.
 
Plenty of ways too skin' ye ol' cat  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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swamt

Veteran
Oct 23, 2010
12,478
4,835
700UW said:
Nothing is a given, even a contractual language grievance.
 
And its amazing how blind some people are and cant even understand black and white.
 
Past Practice is a recognized thing in the grievance procedure.
 
And you cant even absorb it when its in front of you?
NM.  There you go again acting just like WT.    I brought up a point, and you have to turn it into how everybody else is blind  and can't absorb (grasp) information bla, bla, bla...
 
I know that Past practices are used and "sometimes" works well, and sometimes does not.  I simply said that PP is not a gimme and you turned it into I know nothing about PP and can't absorb anything.  That is exact WT behavior...  
 
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WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
21,710
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I haven't participated in this discussion in the least and I don't want to unless you drag me into it.

You two are equally dogmatic regarding your points as is everyone else on this forum.

To say anyone's behavior is like someone else's when everyone dogmatically stands up for what they believe is simply hypocritical. if you don't stand up for what you believe, why bother to participate in the first place?
 
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