Time to Leave the Industry - Don''t Be The Last Out

[RV4]

Student Guide to Financial Aid

[url="http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/student_guide/index.html"]http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publicat...uide/index.html[/URL]


The Student Guide

Financial Aid from the U.S. Department of Education

 

[RV4]

New Career Planner:

http://safetynet.doleta.gov/career.htm

 

[RV4]

Job Opportunities

[url="http://safetynet.doleta.gov/opportun.htm"]http://safetynet.doleta.gov/opportun.htm[/URL]

 

[WXGuesser]

Aw, isn''t that sweet... providing all this information to the thousands of your fellow union bretheren you are trying to shove out the door with your NO vote.

Sorry, that was bitter of me. How very kind of you to help out your fellow human beings.

TANSTAAFL

 

[WXGuesser]

----------------
On 4/14/2003 1141 PM Boomer wrote:

WX,
How kind of you to urge voluntary financial ruin on some Mechanics so that you can be recalled as a Weather Guesser.

Thanks!

----------------​

Where will there be more mechanics in financial ruin? Outside of bankruptcy with at least some income, or inside bankruptcy with thousands of more without jobs and the rest taking pay cuts anyway?

Whether I get called back or not, I have a job. Granted, I would *rather* be working for American. How many of those thousands of employees American will likely lay off in bankruptcy will be able to find jobs in this economy? I don''t wish getting furloughed on anybody. It sucks. I have no guarantee of coming back even if this T/A passes. I would like to see there still be an airline for *everybody* to come back to. And I think the best way to do that is to avoid bankruptcy.

TANSTAAFL

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

----------------
On 4/14/2003 9:36:45 PM WXGuesser wrote:

Aw, isn''t that sweet... providing all this information to the thousands of your fellow union bretheren you are trying to shove out the door with your NO vote.

Sorry, that was bitter of me. How very kind of you to help out your fellow human beings.

TANSTAAFL



----------------​

How in HEL*, is RV4''s "NO" vote shoving "union" people out out the door?

I REALLY hope your not insinuating that by voting "NO", is treating junior "union" people unfairly.

A unions "ULTIMATE" responsibility is to protect SENIORITY.

A notion, I clearly understood, when I took my union oath.

When I got off of probation, I CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD, that I had just became the most junior man, in the system That meant that as the "last one in", I''d be "the first one out"(if, at the time, that ANY SITUATION made it necessary)

After paying my "DUES" (juniority), a strange thing happened to me. I STARTED TO GAIN SENIORITY.
As a union man, who took his oath seriously, I quickly realized that the "system" that I took an oath in, was a very FAIR system !!!!!!!!!!

Hey, but what are you gonna'' do !!

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO "WANT" SOMETHING FOR "NOTHING".

Oh well, in less than 9 hours from now, we''ll know for sure.

NH/BB''s

 

[Boomer]

WX,
How kind of you to urge voluntary financial ruin on some Mechanics so that you can be recalled as a Weather Guesser.

Thanks!

 

[WXGuesser]

Bears, you''re a smart fellow. I believe that from reading your posts.

I wonder if you have thought about something... In bankruptcy, there is the potential that the contract can be abrogated, correct?

If the contract is abrogated, the company could in theory start closing stations and outsourcing operations. But if the contract is no longer in force, those people at the closed stations have no bumping rights, etc. All of that goes out with the contract. System protection, station protection, all of it. In that case:

SENIORITY

DOESN''T

MATTER.

Not even the slightest. It''s gone. It''s a meaningless number unless there is a contract in force that says it means something. You think that the company would rather keep the senior people (who cost more against the bottom line) than the junior people?

Why in the name of all the gods in all the heavens would you even open that door even a crack??? Even give them the possibility of being able to get rid of people out of seniority order?

Now I grant it is a remote possibility, but do you really want to take that chance?

TANSTAAFL

 

[Boomer]

WX,
The point is that you are outside the game trying to yell at the players and the Umpires to influence the game.

As long as we all know you did not have the time to stay in the game, we can all understand not only what you say but why you would say such things.

Capiche?

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

----------------
Boomer wrote:

WX,
The point is that you are outside the game trying to yell at the players and the Umpires to influence the game.


----------------

And the histrionics we see from some others here couldn''t be viewed the same way?

​

 

[WO/drone]

I was told by every union I have been in, that unions were to preserve jobs and secure benefits. As many jobs as possible. Contracts determine seniority and how it is applied, i.e. station seniority, craft seniority etc.

 

[WXGuesser]

----------------
On 4/15/2003 1:00:32 AM Boomer wrote:

WX,
The point is that you are outside the game trying to yell at the players and the Umpires to influence the game.

As long as we all know you did not have the time to stay in the game, we can all understand not only what you say but why you would say such things.

Capiche?

----------------​

Boomer:

Do you know how much *more* seniority the guy above me on the list had? Two months. He and I were both up for that hiring spot; he got it, I didn''t. I don''t have a problem with the seniority system; I knew how it worked when I got on board. Last In First Out. I was there long enough to earn my recall rights.

Whether you believe what I am about to say or not, it is the truth: I would be screaming the same things whether I was on the inside or outside. The things I am saying, I am saying for everyone to think about, from the most senior to the last person on every list. Think about the consequences of your decision, for you and try to think about the effects on others as well.

I''m not trying to take a job from anyone. If the company feels there is an operational need for me, then they will call me back, just the same way it is in any department. As I said before, it is far from guaranteed that I would come back even if the T/A passes. There may not be a department for me to come back to, whether we are in bankruptcy or not. The company may outsource my job and move my department even if the airline survives this! Try having that sword of Damocles over your head.

as you said, capiche?

TANSTAAFL

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

----------------
On 4/15/2003 1:00:32 AM Boomer wrote:

The point is that you are outside the game trying to yell at the players and the Umpires to influence the game.

As long as we all know you did not have the time to stay in the game, we can all understand not only what you say but why you would say such things.

Capiche?

----------------​

He''s not outside the game, he''s on the bench.