Twu Members Come Out In Force

[Bob Owens]

OK so the TWU has a few hundred supporters in Tulsa out of a workforce of 7000. So far AMFA has collected 1986 cards in Tulsa for a vote. Seems that AMFA is in the lead.

In Tulsa, the TWU best stronghold, the TWU got a showing of less than 9%, including those who came from other stations, while AMFA has cards from over 28%.

Looks like the other 63% is up for grabs!

How about having a few of those "debates" out here on the line?

AMFA is running at about 90% out here.

What we have to remember here is that this campain by the TWU is not to win the vote but to prevent a vote. It shows their contempt for Democracy.

Spoke to three more guys from the Ramp Today. Thats three more cards for the AGW!

Looks like the TWU may have two votes to contend with this year! Looks like a busy year for the TWU. Accountability will no longer be denied!

 

[twuer]

OK so the TWU has a few hundred supporters in Tulsa out of a workforce of 7000. So far AMFA has collected 1986 cards in Tulsa for a vote. Seems that AMFA is in the lead.

In Tulsa, the TWU best stronghold, the TWU got a showing of less than 9%, including those who came from other stations, while AMFA has cards from over 28%.

Looks like the other 63% is up for grabs!

How about having a few of those "debates" out here on the line?

AMFA is running at about 90% out here.

What we have to remember here is that this campain by the TWU is not to win the vote but to prevent a vote. It shows their contempt for Democracy.

Spoke to three more guys from the Ramp Today. Thats three more cards for the AGW!

Looks like the TWU may have two votes to contend with this year! Looks like a busy year for the TWU. Accountability will no longer be denied!

I'd like an honest opinion Bob. Why do you think your boys didn't show here in Tulsa??? They had their chance to be heard in front of the membership and they didn't even come in.

Since you are in NY and not really in the middle of it here, I was just wondering what you thought about why they couldn't debate the issues.

I already know that you wanted Sonny or Jim but that wasn't the format for this debate. There are a lot of people wondering why they didnt' show.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'd like an honest opinion Bob. Why do you think your boys didn't show here in Tulsa??? They had their chance to be heard in front of the membership and they didn't even come in.

Since you are in NY and not really in the middle of it here, I was just wondering what you thought about why they couldn't debate the issues.

I already know that you wanted Sonny or Jim but that wasn't the format for this debate. There are a lot of people wondering why they didnt' show.

Simple.

Because it was not a debate.

It was an ambush. If it was a simple debate between Local 514 members who differed over representation Art Luby and officers from other Locals would not have been there.

Of those who showed up how many were not on the TWUs payroll? I'm not talking about UB for the day, I'm talking about on the payroll? Art Luby is. All the officers from other Locals are. All the shop stewards are. How many of them were just plain Rank & File members who just wanted to hear what their fellow TWU members, those who favor staying with the TWU and those who favor going to AMFA, had to say?

At the meeting on Saturday the only ones on the AMFA payroll will be those on the panel. The TWU is invited to send their representatives. All the rest are true volunteers. People who are there on their own time on their own dime. They were not told "show up or else". Since the TWU has indicated that they will not participate in a debate on equal terms it will end up being an informational meeting. All those who have a relevant interest are invited to attend. They are free to bring up whatever they like and it remains to be seen if they are shouted down like at the TWU meeting.

AMFA and the AGW! Airline Unions for Airline Workers.

 

[Raptor]

Will the TWU be at the debate tommorow or are they afraid, we will be looking for you, AMFA had the banner in front of the AA base here in Tulsa, chuck shcalk was there, Don Rodger, Dan Cunningham, Gary, etc more names than can be mentioned there were probably 30 AMFA supporters or maybe it was 1000 if you count like the TWU counts, The TWU players showed up later Les Howard was the first to show up and take his stakes
Later Rick Mullins showed and many others most of the TWU guys were stock clerks as there are not many TWU A&P Mechanics supporting the TWU these days it was fun debating them on the corner and competing with signs, I for one am glad they showed up, it made for a very interesting banner day

Some of the TWU supporters almost got run over many times as they were not smart enough to get out of the street
It was fun but I think the real fun will be tommorow at the AMFA vs TWU debate.
the TWU supporters at the corner were quite angry so I am sure they will all be at the debate tommorow.
I doubt that any International officers will have the guts to show however.

I for one am ready to bring this thing to a vote, winner takes all.

 

[Raptor]

Mojo I am betting there will be alot of TWU members at the debate tommorow and I think there will be a debate probably not between Delle and the TWU Leaders in the International but I am pretty sure that Team TWU will be there, I'm betting Rick Mullins will be there and Kirk Wells the sell out TWU Presidents etc.

So there will probably be a debate of some kind, it is just to bad that the International probably won't be there.

It ain't over yet mojo see you Saturday

Everyone is welcome so just show up or shut up.

 

[twuer]

I'd like an honest opinion Bob. Why do you think your boys didn't show here in Tulsa??? They had their chance to be heard in front of the membership and they didn't even come in.

Since you are in NY and not really in the middle of it here, I was just wondering what you thought about why they couldn't debate the issues.

I already know that you wanted Sonny or Jim but that wasn't the format for this debate. There are a lot of people wondering why they didnt' show.

Simple.

Because it was not a debate.

It was an ambush. If it was a simple debate between Local 514 members who differed over representation Art Luby and officers from other Locals would not have been there.

Of those who showed up how many were not on the TWUs payroll? I'm not talking about UB for the day, I'm talking about on the payroll? Art Luby is. All the officers from other Locals are. All the shop stewards are. How many of them were just plain Rank & File members who just wanted to hear what their fellow TWU members, those who favor staying with the TWU and those who favor going to AMFA, had to say?

At the meeting on Saturday the only ones on the AMFA payroll will be those on the panel. The TWU is invited to send their representatives. All the rest are true volunteers. People who are there on their own time on their own dime. They were not told "show up or else". Since the TWU has indicated that they will not participate in a debate on equal terms it will end up being an informational meeting. All those who have a relevant interest are invited to attend. They are free to bring up whatever they like and it remains to be seen if they are shouted down like at the TWU meeting.

AMFA and the AGW! Airline Unions for Airline Workers.

That's a bit hypocritical Bob. Who cares who is there. Art Luby had every right to be there. He wasn't on the panel. Everyone was invited. I'm sure the big guys from AMFA will be there Saturday. Isn't the event that is to take place on Saturday suppose to be a debate as well??? What's the difference? The TWU had one, AMFA didn't show up. They were invited. They couldn't come up with the rank and file members to put on the panel. Whho will be on the AMFA panel? Let me guess, Dell (of course) and Seham?? McCormick?? Who else is there??

So are you telling me that if the members did show up to debate they would be welcomed in??? Is this an everyone is welcome debate or will they let some in and not others like they usually do?????

The TWU is invited to send their representatives.

Define "representatives" please. I think the members are good representatives since they are the ones who will be affected by which union represents them.

It sounds like you are waffling. As long as it fits your agenda (the same thing you were griping about the TWU).

 

[Bob Owens]

That's a bit hypocritical Bob. Who cares who is there. Art Luby had every right to be there.

Is Art Luby a member? Can he vote on the issue at hand? Why is my opinion hypocritical? Be specific as to what constitutes hypocrisy.


Everyone was invited.

Invited to what? To watch members discuss what we can all discuss here?

You guys cared enough to specify that the panel was made up of TWU members and did it during the week during working hours.

I'm sure the big guys from AMFA will be there Saturday. Isn't the event that is to take place on Saturday suppose to be a debate as well???

Yes. It was supposed to be a debate between the leaders. But the "leaders" of the TWU chickened out. Why wont our leaders defend their actions? Why do they send a lawyer to speak for them? They cant speak for themselves? If they cant speak for themselves should we continue to trust them to speak for us?

What's the difference?

The difference is that at the TWU debate it was to be an exchgange of opinion without accountability for the statements made. Members can say or claim anything they like. We all have opinions. We want to know what those who are put in charge of our contracts and careers think, not what three random TWU members from each side of the question think, we can see that here or at work any day of the week. Why have leaders if they wont even face those they lead?

Whho will be on the AMFA panel? Let me guess, Dell (of course) and Seham?? McCormick?? Who else is there??

You and I will find out tomorrow. Who was on the TWU panel? Were they Rank and file or on the TWU payroll?

So are you telling me that if the members did show up to debate they would be welcomed in???

Ask those that are running it.


Is this an everyone is welcome debate or will they let some in and not others like they usually do?

Usually do? Do you mean like Sonny Hall did when he was President of Local 100 and he would not allow political opponents to attend union meetings? Do you mean like how Local 514 rejected Local 562s request to address your members? Do you mean how Local 530 panicked when we showed up in their office? While I dont think that the Zebco lady has any business being there if there is enough room and she acts appropriately I dont see any reason why she should have to leave.

Define "representatives" please. I think the members are good representatives since they are the ones who will be affected by which union represents them.

Representative- one that serves as a delegate or agent for another, a member of a governmental body chosen by popular vote, authorized to act as an official delegate or agent.

Well if the members are good representatives then why are they paying all those who call themselves representatives? A little redundant isnt it? Sounds more like the representatives dont want to do their job or be held accountable for any misleading information that might be given out by the TeamTWU . This gives the TWU a liscence to lie. They can say whatever lie they like at the debate and the leaders can deny responsibility. The hope being that the lie gets carried far enough to hurt AMFA.

It sounds like you are waffling.

Define waffling please.

As long as it fits your agenda (the same thing you were griping about the TWU).

Who is paying who? Sounds to me like the TWU leadership is terrified of facing off against the AMFA leadership. With the TWU debate pro Amfa panelists faced possible repercussions from the Local and none of the panelists had the authority to back up any claims they made. Tomorrow everyone would be on a equal footing and both organizations would be responsible for the claims made by its leaders.

My main gripes about the TWU is its lack of accountability and its ineptness (thats the word used by the Teamsters to describe the TWU Leadership).

 

[twuer]

That's a bit hypocritical Bob. Who cares who is there. Art Luby had every right to be there.

Is Art Luby a member? Can he vote on the issue at hand? Why is my opinion hypocritical? Be specific as to what constitutes hypocrisy.


Everyone was invited.

Invited to what? To watch members discuss what we can all discuss here?

You guys cared enough to specify that the panel was made up of TWU members and did it during the week during working hours.

I'm sure the big guys from AMFA will be there Saturday. Isn't the event that is to take place on Saturday suppose to be a debate as well???

Yes. It was supposed to be a debate between the leaders. But the "leaders" of the TWU chickened out. Why wont our leaders defend their actions? Why do they send a lawyer to speak for them? They cant speak for themselves? If they cant speak for themselves should we continue to trust them to speak for us?

What's the difference?

The difference is that at the TWU debate it was to be an exchgange of opinion without accountability for the statements made. Members can say or claim anything they like. We all have opinions. We want to know what those who are put in charge of our contracts and careers think, not what three random TWU members from each side of the question think, we can see that here or at work any day of the week. Why have leaders if they wont even face those they lead?

Whho will be on the AMFA panel? Let me guess, Dell (of course) and Seham?? McCormick?? Who else is there??

You and I will find out tomorrow. Who was on the TWU panel? Were they Rank and file or on the TWU payroll?

So are you telling me that if the members did show up to debate they would be welcomed in???

Ask those that are running it.


Is this an everyone is welcome debate or will they let some in and not others like they usually do?

Usually do? Do you mean like Sonny Hall did when he was President of Local 100 and he would not allow political opponents to attend union meetings? Do you mean like how Local 514 rejected Local 562s request to address your members? Do you mean how Local 530 panicked when we showed up in their office? While I dont think that the Zebco lady has any business being there if there is enough room and she acts appropriately I dont see any reason why she should have to leave.

Define "representatives" please. I think the members are good representatives since they are the ones who will be affected by which union represents them.

Representative- one that serves as a delegate or agent for another, a member of a governmental body chosen by popular vote, authorized to act as an official delegate or agent.

Well if the members are good representatives then why are they paying all those who call themselves representatives? A little redundant isnt it? Sounds more like the representatives dont want to do their job or be held accountable for any misleading information that might be given out by the TeamTWU . This gives the TWU a liscence to lie. They can say whatever lie they like at the debate and the leaders can deny responsibility. The hope being that the lie gets carried far enough to hurt AMFA.

It sounds like you are waffling.

Define waffling please.

As long as it fits your agenda (the same thing you were griping about the TWU).

Who is paying who? Sounds to me like the TWU leadership is terrified of facing off against the AMFA leadership. With the TWU debate pro Amfa panelists faced possible repercussions from the Local and none of the panelists had the authority to back up any claims they made. Tomorrow everyone would be on a equal footing and both organizations would be responsible for the claims made by its leaders.

My main gripes about the TWU is its lack of accountability and its ineptness (thats the word used by the Teamsters to describe the TWU Leadership).

You guys want a debate on your terms we wanted a debate on ours. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but you criticize the TWU but not AMFA for wanting to do the same thing. There is NO difference.

The difference is that at the TWU debate it was to be an exchgange of opinion without accountability for the statements made. Members can say or claim anything they like. We all have opinions.

And leaders don't?? Please, that's a majority of your posts, about how the leaders are liars and deceiptful and not accountable. I'm sure Delle can lie with the best of them. Didn't he get caugt a few times last time he was in Tulsa??

Who was on the TWU panel? Were they Rank and file or on the TWU payroll?
Rank and file. That was the format. And they did a darn fine job I must say!!

Define waffling please.

Sorry, couldn't find that one in dictionary!! An Okie word I guess.

Can't wait to hear about how the "debate" goes tomorrow. Oh, heck maybe I will show up. Is Delle not paying your way to come?

 

[Bob Owens]

[/color]

You guys want a debate on your terms we wanted a debate on ours. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but you criticize the TWU but not AMFA for wanting to do the same thing. There is NO difference.

The difference is that at the TWU debate it was to be an exchgange of opinion without accountability for the statements made. Members can say or claim anything they like. We all have opinions.

And leaders don't?? Please, that's a majority of your posts, about how the leaders are liars and deceiptful and not accountable. I'm sure Delle can lie with the best of them. Didn't he get caugt a few times last time he was in Tulsa??

Who was on the TWU panel? Were they Rank and file or on the TWU payroll?
Rank and file. That was the format. And they did a darn fine job I must say!!

Define waffling please.

Sorry, couldn't find that one in dictionary!! An Okie word I guess.

Can't wait to hear about how the "debate" goes tomorrow. Oh, heck maybe I will show up. Is Delle not paying your way to come? [/quote]
Before we go on could you finish off the rest of the questions and show me the same consideration I showed you?

Is Art Luby a member? Can he vote on the issue at hand? Why is my opinion hypocritical? Be specific as to what constitutes hypocrisy.


Yes. It was supposed to be a debate between the leaders. But the "leaders" of the TWU chickened out. Why wont our leaders defend their actions? Why do they send a lawyer to speak for them? They cant speak for themselves? If they cant speak for themselves should we continue to trust them to speak for us?

We want to know what those who are put in charge of our contracts and careers think, not what three random TWU members from each side of the question think, we can see that here or at work any day of the week. Why have leaders if they wont even face those they lead?

Who was on the TWU panel?

Usually do? Do you mean like Sonny Hall did when he was President of Local 100 and he would not allow political opponents to attend union meetings? Do you mean like how Local 514 rejected Local 562s request to address your members? Do you mean how Local 530 panicked when we showed up in their office?


Well if the members are good representatives then why are they paying all those who call themselves representatives? A little redundant isnt it? Sounds more like the representatives dont want to do their job or be held accountable for any misleading information that might be given out by the TeamTWU .

 

[TWU informer]

That's a bit hypocritical Bob. Who cares who is there. Art Luby had every right to be there. He wasn't on the panel. Everyone was invited. I'm sure the big guys from AMFA will be there Saturday. Isn't the event that is to take place on Saturday suppose to be a debate as well??? What's the difference? The TWU had one, AMFA didn't show up. They were invited.

I think you best GO READ your own invitation sent to Delle again.

EVERYONE was NOT invited and you lie!

Your invitation said "MECHANIC AND RELATED" from ALL AIRLINES.

That isn't Stock CLerks
That isn't Art Luby
That isn't retired personel
That isn't Fleet Service Clerks

You DID NOT even adhere to your own invite, and you distributed a set of ground rules at the meeting that was twice as long as the rules listed on your debate invitation.

Go read your invitation again, explain to me where "EVERYONE WAS INVITED"?
CREDIBILITY EQUALS ZERO - That is where stand now!


Just in case...

Here is a screen capture from atd.org as a reminder:

 

[twuer]

Mojo I am betting there will be alot of TWU members at the debate tommorow and I think there will be a debate probably not between Delle and the TWU Leaders in the International but I am pretty sure that Team TWU will be there, I'm betting Rick Mullins will be there and Kirk Wells the sell out TWU Presidents etc.

So there will probably be a debate of some kind, it is just to bad that the International probably won't be there.

It ain't over yet mojo see you Saturday

Everyone is welcome so just show up or shut up.

Everyone is welcome so just show up or shut up.

You didn't attend the TWU debate. Maybe you should take your own advice!!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

TWU members from around the region attended the meeting. 1000 strong, no matter how you spin. They were members. If you take out the 5 or 6 who were requested to help from the TWU membership that still leaves 995 TWU members who attended.

Amfa can only dream of this???? Amfa had their chance and failed. Everytime adversity comes they tuck their tail between their legs and run.

I understand several potential members have come in from out of town and several amfa members have come in to inflate the numbers as usual!

 

[twuer]

Response to Bob. . .


and show me the same consideration I showed you?

So, you are getting considerate all of a sudden so you expect everyone else to be as well?? What a concept. Too bad you are just now adhering to it!!

Is Art Luby a member? Can he vote on the issue at hand? Why is my opinion hypocritical? Be specific as to what constitutes hypocrisy.

No,no and see my first paragraph on the previous post.

Yes. It was supposed to be a debate between the leaders.

NO, it wasn't a debate between the "leaders", it was a debate between rank and file.

Who was on the TWU panel?

A TUL guy, an MCI guy and an AFW guy (I could be wrong about the location of one of them)


Usually do? Do you mean like Sonny Hall did when he was President of Local 100 and he would not allow political opponents to attend union meetings? Do you mean like how Local 514 rejected Local 562s request to address your members? Do you mean how Local 530 panicked when we showed up in their office?

Sorry, but I don't have enough knowledge on these to comment on them to satisfy you.

Well if the members are good representatives then why are they paying all those who call themselves representatives? A little redundant isnt it? Sounds more like the representatives dont want to do their job or be held accountable for any misleading information that might be given out by the TeamTWU .

You are going to spin it the way you see fit anyway. We paid you didn't we?????????

 

[twuer]

TWU members from around the region attended the meeting. 1000 strong, no matter how you spin. They were members. If you take out the 5 or 6 who were requested to help from the TWU membership that still leaves 995 TWU members who attended.

Amfa can only dream of this???? Amfa had their chance and failed. Everytime adversity comes they tuck their tail between their legs and run.

I understand several potential members have come in from out of town and several amfa members have come in to inflate the numbers as usual!

I understand several potential members have come in from out of town and several amfa members have come in to inflate the numbers as usual!

Hey CIO,
That's why they chose to have it on a Saturday. . .travel time needed!!!

 

[Rusty]

TWU members from around the region attended the meeting. 1000 strong, no matter how you spin. They were members. If you take out the 5 or 6 who were requested to help from the TWU membership that still leaves 995 TWU members who attended.

Amfa can only dream of this???? Amfa had their chance and failed. Everytime adversity comes they tuck their tail between their legs and run.

I understand several potential members have come in from out of town and several amfa members have come in to inflate the numbers as usual!

BWAAAHAAHA!!! So, 1000 people into a 250 person room. Lets see, if spit perfectly even for both rallies and none stayed over that would be 500 squished in there huh. lmao You just can't help it anymore can you CIO???