U.S. May Ease Rule On Labor Vote

[Airlinelifer]

Disturbing? You weren't disturbed when they fast tracked this merger under the Bush Administration.

Now your disturbed? Rolling out of bed to point & click or dialing in your vote is just so freeking hard. COMPANY INTERFERENCE & APATHY should'nt count as a VOTE. And if you really HATE the union or really LOVE the union, at least you would now get an actual count of yes, no, or the real "I don't give a RIP."

 

[Dignity]

Disturbing? You weren't disturbed when they fast tracked this merger under the Bush Administration.

Now your disturbed?

what does the Bush Administration have to do with our representational election?

yes.. I find it very disturbing when other employees groups have resolved all their issues, our group finally
files and months later while nothing is being accomplished, they end up pulling the whole request.

that makes no sense at all.

Rolling out of bed to point & click or dialing in your vote is just so freeking hard.

I do not think the issue right now is the actual election format.. rather than simply there was at least the request, now there is nothing.

COMPANY INTERFERENCE & APATHY should'nt count as a VOTE. And if you really HATE the union or really LOVE the union, at least you would now get an actual count of yes, no, or the real "I don't give a RIP."

we have to resolve these issues so our group moves forward.

focus.

 

[bullterrier]

what does the Bush Administration have to do with our representational election?

My thoughts exactlyyes.. I find it very disturbing when other employees groups have resolved all their issues, our group finally
files and months later while nothing is being accomplished, they end up pulling the whole request.

that makes no sense at all.


I do not think the issue right now is the actual election format.. rather than simply there was at least the request, now there is nothing.


we have to resolve these issues so our group moves forward.

focus.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

what does the Bush Administration have to do with our representational election?

yes.. I find it very disturbing when other employees groups have resolved all their issues, our group finally
files and months later while nothing is being accomplished, they end up pulling the whole request.

that makes no sense at all.


I do not think the issue right now is the actual election format.. rather than simply there was at least the request, now there is nothing.


we have to resolve these issues so our group moves forward.

focus.

Dignity----are you serious?????????????
You don't get this????
It's about strategy. Airlines (and the ATA) have used the archaic rule to their advantage (strategy! hello!) in the last few elections, now the tide has turned.
What exactly is it that you want (and why) to happen so quickly? You want to fly a 777 to Europe? Got a hot PMDL guy (or gal) you want to fly with? What? What is it? What is this impatience all about?? You'll get your chance. Don't throw everything away because you are so impatient.

 

[Dignity]

Dignity----are you serious?????????????

yes

You don't get this????

no

(pulling the request, not really)

It's about strategy.

Oh!

(well I am glad someone knows what going on)

Airlines (and the ATA) have used the archaic rule to their advantage (strategy! hello!) in the last few elections, now the tide has turned.

so our election is on hold, well actually not on hold... the request is pulled!

because some want to even the score?

trying to even the score doesnt change how someone will vote!

What exactly is it that you want (and why) to happen so quickly?

well the merger was approved over a year ago, the SOC is in the very immediate future and to date
we have zero issues resolved.

I look at this from the perspective, time is just being wasted!

zero issues resolved, plus maybe one issue being resolved (but now its pulled) = ZERO!

😱

You want to fly a 777 to Europe?

WOOT WOOT !

oh wait a minute!! do they even fly the 777 to Europe?

Got a hot PMDL guy (or gal) you want to fly with? What? What is it?

Well, I think the DL people are very professional!

what is it? well...

I will share my real concern regarding this entire situation.

The Union activists have gone to war with those who are not supporting the Union.
I believe that is the case simply because of the LEC's, organizers,
paid activists who have been commenting all over the Internet for the past
year fighting with DL Flight Attendants who do not support their ideas.

(People can research it for themselves, its all over the place)

Do you think that is going to end after the election?

dont count on it!

I know what the Union members do to those who do not support
them or if you are remotely perceived to be Pro-Company any way
shape or form ..you are ostracized from the group and labeled
bitter and disgruntled.

Just make sure you support
every one of their ideas and it will be "OK".
they are very militant.

All the activists have done this entire year is create division, and
that really bothers me.

They are not pro-Company, I just wish they would drop that slogan.

(I see it completely differently a year later, the Union going from supporting the merger
to just having no idea what is going on with them today)

They are fighting with the Flight Attendants, those who are to pay them
dues, do you think that is going to be an effective way to embrace unionism should
they win?

Its just the way I see it.

What is this impatience all about??

Luke,
I am not an impatient person, if anything I think most are very patient putting up with all the continued delays.

You'll get your chance.

yeah sure, probably when Im ready to retire!

Don't throw everything away because you are so impatient.

oh you are just cute as all get out what you write sometimes!

:hugs:

 

[WoRkInG]

I am really not trying to be funny, but isn't it the employees choice if they want a union or not?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

so our election is on hold, well actually not on hold... the request is pulled!

because some want to even the score?

Of course not, silly...it's about ensuring a democratic process is carried out in the vote. That this election is held like every other election in this country. During last night's election, some precincts reported only 20% eligible voter turnout!!! Can you imagine if that 80% who stayed home were all counted as "NO" votes for important referendums?? Only those who care enough to vote should count. This is NOT a foreign concept. In fact, the current airline/RR union election process is the odd one.

I will share my real concern regarding this entire situation.

The Union activists have gone to war with those who are not supporting the Union.
I believe that is the case simply because of the LEC's, organizers,
paid activists who have been commenting all over the Internet for the past
year fighting with DL Flight Attendants who do not support their ideas.

(People can research it for themselves, its all over the place)

Do you think that is going to end after the election?

dont count on it!

I know what the Union members do to those who do not support
them or if you are remotely perceived to be Pro-Company any way
shape or form ..you are ostracized from the group and labeled
bitter and disgruntled.

Just make sure you support
every one of their ideas and it will be "OK".
they are very militant.

All the activists have done this entire year is create division, and
that really bothers me.

They are not pro-Company, I just wish they would drop that slogan.

(I see it completely differently a year later, the Union going from supporting the merger
to just having no idea what is going on with them today)

They are fighting with the Flight Attendants, those who are to pay them
dues, do you think that is going to be an effective way to embrace unionism should
they win?

Its just the way I see it.

Dignity, when I first started reading your posts about 1 1/2 years ago, you were a union and a contract supporter. Now, it seems the tide has changed and that is your perogative.
But if you think that only the pro-AFA FAs are the ones fanning these flames, you are sadly mistaken. As you say, look on the internet..it IS indeed everywhere. If it weren't, there would not be a group called NoWayAFA and there would not be the nastiness and character assassinations you see on their site. And let's face it...for the most part, if you compare the writing styles and emotionalism, the Pro-Contract side wins hands down. Some of the anti-union supporters (not all) are downright embarassing in their tone.
From personal experience, I have had far more FAS who strike up the conversation and want to "get into it" that are wearing their "NOWAYAFA" bag tags than I have pro-union people speaking out. And why not? It's not too scary too speak out in agreement with your company's position but it is much more risky to go against the grain.
Again, what is it that you have against a DEMOCRATIC voting process that you would want to stop its processing (doesn't happen overnight) in order to move along? So your or other FA's little world can expand to flying with PMDL/PMNW f/a's or going to new destinations, etc..?
There has been a long line of patient people who, though they fought for fairness, knew it could take a while before that fairness was finally ensured. (Women, African Americans to name two.)

 

[BABABOOY]

This is actually great news! It really shows the true colors of the AFA.
I WAS all for this coming together quickly, however if we can fly the
A330/747 but not mix the crews? Hey what's a few years. I'd take
it and the AFA will continue to rake in the due's from the PMNW f/a's.....

in all seriousness this is just sad. The current rules have not stopped
any Unions from getting in, in fact look at the majority of the transportation
system and you will see Unions in every aspect. It's just because they
can't infiltrate Delta that they want to change the rules... Transparent huh?
Do you want a Union who will work with the company for a common goal
that will benefit everyone? Then Not AFA.... or do you want a Union that will
continue to put up road blocks every step of the way? Then choose AFA....
The AFA is making that choice much clearer to many.
And for those who talk about anti-AFA supporters.....You know damn well
the same can be said about the AFA supporters and then some. Gotta love
the arrogance.... And hypocrisy.
One good thing that will come of this....Those who have chosen to remain
quiet in the past as far as whether they want a Union. I think we will
be hearing from them loud and clear. The Silent Majority will be awoken.
Even my Die hard former Pan Am f/s's can't believe the ineptitude of this
Union and will vote NO this go around. Like I said earlier, it's going to be
a bumpy ride, but let me add....fun to watch ;-)

 

[southwind]

And let the games begin...............woo-hoo !

No more excuses for delaying ..........................right ? :blink:

Opps, my bad. I jumed the gun again and the delaying tactics have been re-instated ! :down:

 

[southwind]

If I don't take the time to vote a union into power, it means I'm not interested in what their selling, hence a "NO" vote. Seems like a very simple concept !

 

[dapoes]

Of course not, silly...it's about ensuring a democratic process is carried out in the vote.

Democratic process is the right to vote (or not) or a voice. No one is being denied the right to vote. You and the rest are confused on the definition of "Democratic Process"

That this election is held like every other election in this country. During last night's election, some precincts reported only 20% eligible voter turnout!!! Can you imagine if that 80% who stayed home were all counted as "NO" votes for important referendums?? Only those who care enough to vote should count. This is NOT a foreign concept. In fact, the current airline/RR union election process is the odd one.

No, not really. It's purpose was never to game the system and make union organizing easier. It was to avoid any interruption to commerce.

RLA Link

§ 151a. General purposes

The purposes of the chapter are:
(1) To avoid any interruption to commerce or to the operation of any carrier engaged therein;
(2) to forbid any limitation upon freedom of association among employees or any denial, as a condition of employment or otherwise, of the right of employees to join a labor organization;
(3) to provide for the complete independence of carriers and of employees in the matter of self-organization to carry out the purposes of this chapter-,
(4) to provide for the prompt and orderly settlement of all disputes concerning rates of pay, rules, or working conditions;
(5) to provide for the prompt and orderly settlement of all disputes growing out of grievances or out of the interpretation or application of agreements covering rates of pay, rules, or working conditions.

Dignity, when I first started reading your posts about 1 1/2 years ago, you were a union and a contract supporter. Now, it seems the tide has changed and that is your perogative.

As well many other pro AFA people that are now turned off by their antics. Constant delays, a big stink about a red dress, etc. They look ridiculous.

But if you think that only the pro-AFA FAs are the ones fanning these flames, you are sadly mistaken. As you say, look on the internet..it IS indeed everywhere. If it weren't, there would not be a group called NoWayAFA and there would not be the nastiness and character assassinations you see on their site. And let's face it...for the most part, if you compare the writing styles and emotionalism, the Pro-Contract side wins hands down. Some of the anti-union supporters (not all) are downright embarassing in their tone.

And the WCD people have their fair share of proponents who love to hurl absurd and embarrassing statements. Theres no shortage of nitwits and it's not isolated to the NoWayAFA. If you have a hard time dealing with dissenting or opposing views then maybe you just shouldn't read them.

From personal experience, I have had far more FAS who strike up the conversation and want to "get into it" that are wearing their "NOWAYAFA" bag tags than I have pro-union people speaking out. And why not? It's not too scary too speak out in agreement with your company's position but it is much more risky to go against the grain.

Your opinion. Its gonna be ok.

Again, what is it that you have against a DEMOCRATIC voting process that you would want to stop its processing (doesn't happen overnight) in order to move along? So your or other FA's little world can expand to flying with PMDL/PMNW f/a's or going to new destinations, etc..?
There has been a long line of patient people who, though they fought for fairness, knew it could take a while before that fairness was finally ensured. (Women, African Americans to name two.)

Nice spin job, but again you are confused what the Democratic voting process means.

Anyway, I digress...

Could this merely be an attempt to kick the can down the road to show that the the NMB is not biased? The NMB's obvious biased decision will be hotly debated. The Supreme Court has twice upheld the majority rule, and the Mediation Board has four times rejected requests to change it, as recently as last year. The majority rule has been used in more than 1,850 elections, and unions have won more than 65% of the time

The RLA is to minimize the disruption on interstate commerce stemming from labor-management disputes. And this rule would likely do just the opposite: increase the likelihood of union activities that could wreak havoc on our nation’s commerce.

The 12th and 17th Amendments changed the rules for electing Presidents and Senators, but only after careful deliberation. And just as the Constitution establishes the framework for the establishment of the Federal government and its relationship with states and citizens, the RLA establishes the framework for the resolution of labor-management practices in the railroad and airline industries.

Changes can be made and have been made to that ruling document (constitution). Similarly, changes can be made to the RLA. But that should happen only after careful deliberation. Moreover, it should not occur on the whim of two NMB members.

The fact is, this proposed rule change is aimed at a single airline, Delta, which is less-unionized than any other legacy carrier. And as the nation’s largest airline following its acquisition of Northwest, Delta is clearly a tempting union target.

 

[Dignity]

Dignity, when I first started reading your posts about 1 1/2 years ago, you were a union and a contract supporter. Now, it seems the tide has changed and that is your perogative.

well its like this, I can still hold true what I believe, but also understand it can be different elsewhere..

but I do not like what they have done over the past year..and I do see the Union in a different light, but
let me state this a little clearer,

I see this particular Union representing Flight Attendants differently.

seniority integration lawsuits, delays, not allowing us to vote for those in our own union leadership..
pulling requests to move forward, infighting, creating of division.. for starters...

(this past year is just a preview of what will unfold with these folks)

I am very open minded but I do not support what they are doing, the pulling of the request really made
my mind up this time.

if the majority is OK with the stunts being pulled, well that will be what it will be.

I am not necessarily upset, but rather

extremely disappointed.

But if you think that only the pro-AFA FAs are the ones fanning these flames, you are sadly mistaken. As you say, look on the internet..it IS indeed everywhere.
If it weren't, there would not be a group called NoWayAFA and there would not be the nastiness and character assassinations you see on their site. And let's face it...for the most part, if you compare the writing styles and emotionalism, the Pro-Contract side wins hands down. Some of the anti-union supporters (not all) are downright embarassing in their tone.

its all freedom of speech..

(I guess)

but what bothers me, we pay the Union via our dues and they are spending half their time on the internet
fighting with the same people they are trying to convince they are to join and who do not share their personal
views.

Sometimes I think they should change the name Union to Cult.

From personal experience, I have had far more FAS who strike up the conversation and want to "get into it" that are wearing their "NOWAYAFA" bag tags than I have pro-union people speaking out. And why not? It's not too scary too speak out in agreement with your company's position but it is much more risky to go against the grain.

to me, it is always admirable when someone voices their views even if it goes against the grain and stands
up for what they believe in.

Again, what is it that you have against a DEMOCRATIC voting process that you would want to stop its processing (doesn't happen overnight) in order to move along?

I am not against the democratic voting process, what I do not support
is the continued delays and now the pulling of the request altogether.. that prevents the group integrating
timely and wasting time while ignoring the need to resolve important issues.

but I strongly believe, the actual majority of employees should put a Union on the property during an election.

So your or other FA's little world can expand to flying with PMDL/PMNW f/a's or going to new destinations, etc..?

I am going to continue to fly my little one day trips and turns,

so unless they plan on removing that option that is where
I will be.

(I think the opportunity for new flying is great for everyone)

There has been a long line of patient people who, though they fought for fairness, knew it could take a while before that fairness was finally ensured. (Women, African Americans to name two.)

The relevance of the Union pulling the request is?

 

[BABABOOY]

Careful Dig, you can't come across on these boards of actually
believing one way than evolving your thought process because
of information that you have learned or experience.
You will be accused of never really being truthful in the first place.
Oh but that is starting to happen huh? And it has happened to
others on here. They will turn
on you in a heart beat.

 

[Dignity]

The current rules have not stopped
any Unions from getting in, in fact look at the majority of the transportation
system and you will see Unions in every aspect.

exactly.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Careful Dig, you can't come across on these boards of actually
believing one way than evolving your thought process because
of information that you have learned or experience.
You will be accused of never really being truthful in the first place.
Oh but that is starting to happen huh? And it has happened to
others on here. They will turn
on you in a heart beat.

You are a real grudge-holder, aren't you BB? That's sad.
If you would reread my previous posting, I said (regarding Dignity's stance) "that is your perogative." Where did I "turn on" her?
It's funny that when a contract/union supporter speaks out,asks questions about someone's stance, it is "turning on" someone, yet when a paid hack like dapoes performs her ridiculous, archaic, 1930s "disruption of interstate commerce" gag, it's considered open expression, welcomed opinion, etc..
Careful, your biASs is showing. :down: