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On 2/9/2003 7:22:44 PM PineyBob wrote:
PITbull,
The stock market over time is the one investment that has earned on average of 12% year over year. Has it declined over the last 60 years? Yes it has! So for someone who invests roughly 10% of their income and recieves a 50% employer match and earns minimum wage and on average of half the average return of 12% from the stock market will amass about $980,000.00 over 40 years. So find me a defined benefit plan that delivers that type of performance to a rank and file employee?
Also the example does not include pay increases or the impact of inflation to be fair!
That just points out the fraud of both Social Security and defined benefit plans. Remember SS was an election year ploy by FDR, Folks would recieve benefits @ age 65. The average life expectancy then was 55. They never figured people would live longer and the money isn't even invested. How cynical of our leaders in the midst of the great depression. Just one mans opinion
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Piney,
With all due respect, this is my point.
You incite an average return of 12% if you invest in the market year after year. Inspite of a decline, you state if a minimum wage earner invested 10% of their income and had a 50% match over 40 years, and take 1/2 the 12% they would yeild $980,000 for retirement.
Great hypothesis. Way I figure this is find a person that was savy enough to invest in the market 40 years ago making minimum wage, putting 10% of their earnings in an investment that pretty much guaranteed him/her at least a 6% return year after year for 40 years and had such a GREAT employer that matched them 50cents on a dollar. Sounds good, but I'm not crazy to accept that as any real solution in anyones world. Most folks on minimum wage either live with many folks or live at home, and for your theory to work, someone else had to provide them with food and shelter, and go to "good will" to pick up the style of the day. The hell with a vacations for 40 years, and don't get married and have kids in those 40 years cause you'll have to give them away or rob a "stop and go". And, don't think about education loans cause you're not going to pay the loan back. And better not think of buying a car, cause if you buy a heap that you can afford, you need money to fix it.
And for Pete's sake, whatever you do, don't get sick!
If one makes it in life on min. wage and invests in the market 10% of their income forfeiting all above, then maybe, your hypothesis could work. And, let me know the employer who was willing to give a match of 50 Cents on the dollar for at least 40 years.
All I know is I thought I was a savy investor. Did pretty well for about 10 years, then boom. Never thought we would have such a down turn. And if I'd had a crystal ball I would know to pull out or transfer in investments that were more sustaining (if their is such an animal), total net loss $177,000. Good job, and I listened to the professionals. My point was in "generality" not if a few people could have this success. Your hypothesis is just not realistic if applied to the average person and the average wage earner.
Realistically speaking, I will take ss and a defined pension any day, the hell with keeping up with COLA.
PS. Keep in mind, that min. wage was much lower in previous years than where it stands at present, and most employers give min. wage earners dimes per year if any for increases.
18 AM DELLDUDE wrote: 
