UA Flight Cancelled ...

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

United canceled a flight from Salt Lake City Thursday afternoon after the pilot announced to passengers that he was too upset to fly, according to one passenger on board.
The pilot, who may have been involved in a labor-related dispute with colleagues, said that he didn't feel he could fly safely, said Paul Jacobson, an energy company executive who was aboard United Flight 416 to Denver.

Story Here.

 

[hp_fa]

Honestly I respect the pilot for doing this if he honestly felt too distracted and/or emotionally wrought to safely proceed with the flight. It is better to be alive on the ground and able to complain than become a statistic because of a bad decision. Also remember that most aircraft accidents are found to be due to a chain of incidents and usually if just one link in the chain had been broken the accident would not have happened. I would feel very safe being onboard this pilot's aircraft.

 

[767jetz]

This is not the first nor the last incident similar to this. I remember one time when the captain of a 777 bound for Asia stopped somewhere way short of their destination because the captain felt that the rest facility for the crew was inadequate and they were not rested enough to safely continue the flight. At the time there was a contractual dispute going on about the required rest facility on the airplanes.

I'm not surprised nor do I think it was an bad decision. The FAA gives pilots wide latitude in deciding if we are fit to fly, and always support a person who errs on the side of caution. Fatigue (physical, mental, any kind) is a serious issue and threat to safety that the FAA is starting to look at more closely. What I REALLY want to know it what it was that made him so upset. That will be an interesting story.

 

[FWAAA]

Some news stories are indicating that he had the nerve to wear his hat on a day when the hat switch was in the "off" position and other pilots gave him a lot of grief over it.

Looks like pilot unions are only slightly ahead of middle school on the sophistication meter.

 

[KCFlyer]

United canceled a flight from Salt Lake City Thursday afternoon after the pilot announced to passengers that he was too upset to fly, according to one passenger on board.
The pilot, who may have been involved in a labor-related dispute with colleagues, said that he didn't feel he could fly safely, said Paul Jacobson, an energy company executive who was aboard United Flight 416 to Denver.

Story Here.

IF the pilot felt he would not be fully focused on the task at hand - more power to him.

 

[boxer]

IF the pilot felt he would not be fully focused on the task at hand - more power to him.

Could it possibly have been Mags?

 

[KCFlyer]

Could it possibly have been Mags?

YOu know something - mags ain't a half bad guy. If it was him, more power to him.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

YOu know something - mags ain't a half bad guy. If it was him, more power to him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


KCF,

I'll give ya' a BIG 10-4 on that(Magsau)

He IS(as you say) a DECENT dude, once you get to know him here in cyber space !!!!!!!!!

 

[mga707]

Honestly I respect the pilot for doing this if he honestly felt too distracted and/or emotionally wrought to safely proceed with the flight. It is better to be alive on the ground and able to complain than become a statistic because of a bad decision. Also remember that most aircraft accidents are found to be due to a chain of incidents and usually if just one link in the chain had been broken the accident would not have happened. I would feel very safe being onboard this pilot's aircraft.

The classic example of this was the crash of a BEA Trident in 1972 just after takeoff from LHR. An inadvertent stall was blamed, but a contributing factor was most likely the mental state of the two pilots. BEA was on the verge of a pilot's strike at the time, and the two captains had had an intense argument about the merits of the strike just before takeoff. All on board were killed, and it was Britain's worst air disaster until Lockerbie

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Seems to me that if the "no hat" thing was a "job action" by ALPA that the company could recover the cost of lost revenue from ALPA. This could be an illegal job action. If ALPA denies it, then it may have been hooliganism by the pilots that chastised him, and that may result in discipline from the company. Sounds like this pilot, if he was really upset, did the correct thing by attempting to delay until he could pull himself together.

I must admit that I do not know ANY of the details, so could be incorrect. This "no hat" thing really does seem like a "junior high school" way of getting a message across. Why are so called "professionals" even getting involved in stupidity like this?

 

[767jetz]

Seems to me that if the "no hat" thing was a "job action" by ALPA that the company could recover the cost of lost revenue from ALPA. This could be an illegal job action. If ALPA denies it, then it may have been hooliganism by the pilots that chastised him, and that may result in discipline from the company. Sounds like this pilot, if he was really upset, did the correct thing by attempting to delay until he could pull himself together.

I must admit that I do not know ANY of the details, so could be incorrect. This "no hat" thing really does seem like a "junior high school" way of getting a message across. Why are so called "professionals" even getting involved in stupidity like this?

FYI, just some facts. (Since facts seem to be something you like to play fast and loose with.)

The Hat's off switch on ALAP's web site is not a job action. Sorry to inform you that the lawyers have thoroughly reviewed this one before it was implemented many months ago.

Additionally it is a strong statement of unity. (Another concept you may not be familiar with.) Just like wearing an ALPA pin became a signal of unity before and after ALPA's successful strike against UAL in 1985. Since then the pin is something every member wears as part of his uniform. Only "non members" aka "scabs" do not wear it. At United, a slick tie (one without an ALPA pin) is a like a Scarlet Letter indicating a pilot who crossed the picket line in 1985.

Fact # 3 is that this hat's on/off program has gotten the attention of management and is a thorn in their side. When 8000 pilots wear their hat religiously one day, and suddenly take it off the next at the direction of our MEC Chairman, it sends a clear signal to management that we are marching in unison and are behind our leadership, and our unity can not be broken. It also demonstrates that our communication system from union leaders right down to the line pilots is operating efficiently. Pilots are instructed to carry their hats at all times, and if approached by management in public view and asked to wear the hat, to comply.

I know that being a USAir pilot, it is hard to see the real advantages of unity, coming from a group as fractured as yours. However life outside of USAir works much differently than on other properties. (Thankfully.)

This instance of a pilot removing himself from a flight due to emotional distress is not directly related to any ALPA initiative. ALPA encourages all pilots to self-assess their ability to operate safely at all times and are fully supported by the union in doing so. IMO this pilot did the right thing, because had it not been for this particular confrontation, it would have been something else that pushed him over the edge.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

FYI, just some facts. (Since facts seem to be something you like to play fast and loose with.)

The Hat's off switch on ALAP's web site is not a job action. Sorry to inform you that the lawyers have thoroughly reviewed this one before it was implemented many months ago.

Additionally it is a strong statement of unity. (Another concept you may not be familiar with.) Just like wearing an ALPA pin became a signal of unity before and after ALPA's successful strike against UAL in 1985. Since then the pin is something every member wears as part of his uniform. Only "non members" aka "scabs" do not wear it. At United, a slick tie (one without an ALPA pin) is a like a Scarlet Letter indicating a pilot who crossed the picket line in 1985.

Fact # 3 is that this hat's on/off program has gotten the attention of management and is a thorn in their side. When 8000 pilots wear their hat religiously one day, and suddenly take it off the next at the direction of our MEC Chairman, it sends a clear signal to management that we are marching in unison and are behind our leadership, and our unity can not be broken. It also demonstrates that our communication system from union leaders right down to the line pilots is operating efficiently. Pilots are instructed to carry their hats at all times, and if approached by management in public view and asked to wear the hat, to comply.

I know that being a USAir pilot, it is hard to see the real advantages of unity, coming from a group as fractured as yours. However life outside of USAir works much differently than on other properties. (Thankfully.)

This instance of a pilot removing himself from a flight due to emotional distress is not directly related to any ALPA initiative. ALPA encourages all pilots to self-assess their ability to operate safely at all times and are fully supported by the union in doing so. IMO this pilot did the right thing, because had it not been for this particular confrontation, it would have been something else that pushed him over the edge.

You're wrong about that not being a job action. If your contract contains language requiring proper wear of the uniform, and your union is advising you to violate that provision in protest, then you have a job action. It may be minor, but it is STILL a job action.

I guess that admitting that I had no details isn't enough for you or your junior high school cohorts. So be it. Any furlough numbers yet?

You're gonna be wrong there too.

 

[1Conehead]

.

I must admit that I do not know ANY of the details, so could be incorrect. This "no hat" thing really does seem like a "junior high school" way of getting a message across. Why are so called "professionals" even getting involved in stupidity like this?

Waaaahh,I don't want to play their stupid game and they keep teasing me!

 

[767jetz]

You're wrong about that not being a job action. If your contract contains language requiring proper wear of the uniform, and your union is advising you to violate that provision in protest, then you have a job action. It may be minor, but it is STILL a job action.

I guess that admitting that I had no details isn't enough for you or your junior high school cohorts. So be it. Any furlough numbers yet?

You're gonna be wrong there too.

Hey Einstein, wearing one's hat is not part of the collective bargaining agreement, hence no job action. But thanks for you concern. Once again... fast and loose with the facts.

Of course I understand your confusion, since the USAir East pilots would probably fight for weeks and give up pay and work rules just to put some ridiculous uniform requirements into their contract, just in case they merge with someone, to protect their right to wear their original uniform and no other.

No numbers yet, btw. ALPA is still negotiating with the company this week. But don't you worry. As soon as the information comes out you'll know. And we will be heading to the sweet land of vindication. Better warm up your excuses and justifications, since I'm sure you will be unable to simply come out and admit being wrong. (Again.)

PS. I see you are already backpedaling on your statement of June 16th where you say that your original estimate of 1200-1500 is on the low side and should be more like 1760.

Actually, my numbers are probably a little low. They are parking 100, which is 22 percent of their aircraft. 22 percent of 8000 pilots is 1760 pilots.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

The classic example of this was the crash of a BEA Trident in 1972 just after takeoff from LHR. An inadvertent stall was blamed, but a contributing factor was most likely the mental state of the two pilots. BEA was on the verge of a pilot's strike at the time, and the two captains had had an intense argument about the merits of the strike just before takeoff. All on board were killed, and it was Britain's worst air disaster until Lockerbie

I was was going to mention that crash, mga, but you beat me to it.
Here is the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staines_air_disaster

There is also an excellent account in one of MacArthur Job's Air Disaster books.