Ual Mec Endorses Tentative Agreement

[casual rat]

Freud would determine that Fish has penis envy'!

 

[casual rat]

Exactly!

The only two choices are:

1. Huge paycuts and no equity participation;

or

2. Huge paycuts and some equity participation thru the convertibles.

Only a fool would choose door number 1.

And you are correct about the ESOP: It failed, in part, because the pilots and mechanics couldn't alter their investment. They were stuck in UAL until retirement or separation. No way to sell it when it was selling for more than $90.

[post="229633"][/post]​

If I remember correctly, no one could 'alter' their investments....

 

[UAL_TECH]

Benefit Guaranty Corp.

The pilots have agreed to not fight United's bid to terminate their retirement plan to save money. In return, the pilots will receive $550 million in convertible notes that can be sold later to make up some of the pension shortfall, according to a concession deal negotiated this week.
Somehow I doubt that the PBGC's response will remain as "tame" as the concern expressed today.

[post="229701"][/post]​

Open up the book of 'DUH'!!!
To 'agree' to termination of benefits, then the 'agreement' to PB benefits are terminated forthright.
(No PBGC Saviour=No Benefits) You agreed to it so 'FU'!!

Opening up this pandoras box is further misleading people that a 'mutually agreable termination' is the same as a 'distress termination'.

JMHO, give the $550 million to the PBGC and all will be happy..........

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[kcabpilot]

I hope other groups will see that there are creative methods that could minimize the impact of concessions and still meet their target cuts, in order to avoid having something less palitable imposed by the judge.

[post="229692"][/post]​

My God 767, are you really that stupid? You've got to be a management stooge masquerading as a pilot.

I’m not the sharpest rock in the pile here but I certainly know that UAL owing me something is exactly the same as having nothing. Since when did they gain this newfound credibility?

 

[aafsc]

Open up the book of 'DUH'!!!
To 'agree' to termination of benefits, then the 'agreement' to PB benefits are terminated forthright.
(No PBGC Saviour=No Benefits) You agreed to it so 'FU'!!

Opening up this pandoras box is further misleading people that a 'mutually agreable termination' is the same as a 'distress termination'.

JMHO, give the $550 million to the PBGC and all will be happy..........

JMHO,
B) UT

[post="229761"][/post]​

Isn't it ALPA's position that they "DO NOT REPRESENT RETIREES'?

 

[767jetz]

I suspect that the PBGC will demand some participation in the new UAL to help make up both the actuarial shortfall and the unpaid 2004 contributions of some $500 million.

[post="229737"][/post]​

The PBGC can not demand anything. They are like an insurance policy. If your house burns down and you make a claim, the insurance company can not demand a piece of your new house.

They will complain and cry foul, but in the end, if the judge determines that UAL must terminate it's pensions in order to emerge, and it is done legally and by the prescribed rules of a distressed termination, there is little the PBGC can do about it.

It happened with the steel companies, it happened with the US Air pilots, it happened with countless others, and it will probably happen at United Airlines.

 

[Blues`]

The PBGC can not demand anything. They are like an insurance policy. If your house burns down and you make a claim, the insurance company can not demand a piece of your new house.

They will complain and cry foul, but in the end, if the judge determines that UAL must terminate it's pensions in order to emerge, and it is done legally and by the prescribed rules of a distressed termination, there is little the PBGC can do about it.

It happened with the steel companies, it happened with the US Air pilots, it happened with countless others, and it will probably happen at United Airlines.

[post="229855"][/post]​

unless of course GW and his cronies impliment their new retroactive legislation tool that they have used already and simply void the PBCG obligation or reduce it to a fraction... and oh yeah merry xmas

 

[UAL_TECH]

The PBGC can not demand anything. They are like an insurance policy. If your house burns down and you make a claim, the insurance company can not demand a piece of your new house.

They will complain and cry foul, but in the end, if the judge determines that UAL must terminate it's pensions in order to emerge, and it is done legally and by the prescribed rules of a distressed termination, there is little the PBGC can do about it.

It happened with the steel companies, it happened with the US Air pilots, it happened with countless others, and it will probably happen at United Airlines.

[post="229855"][/post]​

Unless the PBGC goes CH11 and then 'all bets are off'!!!
We are (sorry for the barbaric vernacular) FU(KED!!!
And ALPA involvement in this fiasco is reprehensible!!!

B) UT

 

[Dizel8]

No point in arguing, it is what it is. The UAL pilots have no choice, unless 7 is your lucky number. Just vote yes and hope to fight another day.

 

[Borescope]

Union to Get $550 Million In Convertible Notes in 2005!!!

[post="229567"][/post]​

This is only paid AFTER and if UAL come out of BK. That may become a mighty big IF.

 

[Borescope]

Deleted

 

[UAL_TECH]

No point in arguing, it is what it is. The UAL pilots have no choice, unless 7 is your lucky number. Just vote yes and hope to fight another day.

[post="229950"][/post]​

"The UAL pilots have no choice"

Of course they do!!!

B) UT

 

[Bizman]

What they want is to get as much out for themselves before the other employees have a chance to get a piece of the pie. This agreement will probably foster much ill will around the campus.

The pension agency also said it was concerned that the pilots union insisted on the termination of the pension plans for other United employees.

 

[UAL_TECH]

What they want is to get as much out for themselves before the other employees have a chance to get a piece of the pie. This agreement will probably foster much ill will around the campus.

The pension agency also said it was concerned that the pilots union insisted on the termination of the pension plans for other United employees.

[post="229958"][/post]​

JMHO,
It doesn't foster 'ill will' more so than it proves some assumptions correct that ALPA is eager and willing to throw everyone else under this bus to their benefit.

More like ‘proof’!

B) UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

There are some 'nuances' in the ALPA term sheet that are important to note:

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o New stock allocation formula includes previous allocated amount plus an additional $300 million based on 20 months of cost savings from new agreements.

o Clause to capture any proportional concession based upon the other employee groups final agreements.

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e. Following the Plan Termination Date, the Company shall not maintain or establish any single-employer defined benefit plan for any UAL or Company employee group unless the pilot group is provided the option of electing to receive a comparable defined benefit plan in lieu of the C Plan Contribution.


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In the event the other employees of the Company receive a Distribution in excess of $834,000,000 in connection with the 2005 labor cost reductions (the Other Employee Distribution), then the $300,000,000 amount described in paragraph 2 of this Distribution Agreement shall instead equal the product of (x) $300,000,000 and (y) a fraction, the numerator of which is the actual amount of the Other Employee Distribution and the denominator of which is $834,000,000.

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UT