United Engine Failure On Takeoff (777)

delldude

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WoW! Glad no one was hurt on ground and in the air. How different this could have been. Once one guy reported the inlet at approx 15' in diameter I figured it must have been the 777. Then I found the video below with live in flight after engine failure...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/plane-parts-fall-colorado-neighborhood-000801875.html
The video from a cabin window says a lot, especially for freaked out passengers. Yoi.
I'm waiting to hear what went on, whether it was internal failure or an external ingestion. No doubt things got out of balance real soon.....especially shedding external tin and what not. HAven't heard any reports of debris going through the fuselage.....yet.

This vid, good shot of the fan.

 
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swamt

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The video from a cabin window says a lot, especially for freaked out passengers. Yoi.
I'm waiting to hear what went on, whether it was internal failure or an external ingestion. No doubt things got out of balance real soon.....especially shedding external tin and what not. HAven't heard any reports of debris going through the fuselage.....yet.

This vid, good shot of the fan.

All 777's with the P&W engines are now grounded for inspections.
As robbed said the crew did excellent getting her down safely.
I too am curious to the cause. Usually we would have heard something if it were in ingestion of birds but not saying it wasn't.
This will be huge if it's an internal failure again.
 
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swamt

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Excellent guess delldude. According to this article they have already found two damaged locations; Blade root and @ mid span. Another metal fatigue issue once again. Engine manufacturers will have to step up inspections more than likely for all engine blade inspects. Or might they just suggest on the higher output engines? Delta also just had an engine problem...

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/damaged-fan-blade-united-engine-024600020.html

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-flight-makes-emergency-landing-002203419.html
 

delldude

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I don't know who does their NDT, pretty sure United is in house. They do those with an eddy current probe and liquid penetrant. That Sioux City fan, NDT guy missed an indication.
 

xUT

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It has been awhile and all my old coworkers have retired or laid off.
From UA Tech Ops:
Engines

With United as the launch customer for the Boeing-777 aircraft, United Technical Operations’ experience with the PW4000-112" engine is unequaled. We are the only MRO facility in the United States equipped to work on this engine type.

Engine testing capabilities, including the only PW4000-112” test cell in North America

Test cell is pretty awesome.

IIRC if UA is overloaded with engine work, they send them to P&W for overhaul so it could be either one.

Why Do Boeing 777 Engines Keep Exploding?

P&W developed [a thermal acoustic imaging] inspection process in about 2005 to be able to inspect the interior surfaces of the hollow core PW4000 fan blade. The records for the TAI inspection in July 2015 as well as an earlier TAI accomplished in March 2010 revealed a thermal indication in the same location as where the LCF crack occurred. The records for the fractured fan blade’s July 2015 TAI inspection was annotated “paint” that, according to the inspector, was consistent with him accepting the indication because he thought it was an issue with the paint.

[P&W] classified the TAI as a new and emerging technology and therefore did not have to develop a formal program for initial and recurrent training … The 1st shift inspector was trained by the engineers who developed the process and the 2nd shift inspector, who was the one who last inspected the United Airlines fan blade that fractured, was trained by the 1st shift inspector. Both inspectors stated that their training on the TAI was about 40 hours of on-the-job training. In comparison, the certification requirements for the commonly used eddy current and ultrasonic inspections are 40 hours of classroom training and 1,200 and 1,600 hours of practical experience, respectively.

pw4000.png



Looks like it could be a P&W issue.
Wait for the NTSB & FAA ruling.
JMHO xUT
 
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WraithPath

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You can immediately see the level of professionalism of the crew saved all the passengers, well done!!
 

delldude

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It has been awhile and all my old coworkers have retired or laid off.
From UA Tech Ops:
Engines





Test cell is pretty awesome.

IIRC if UA is overloaded with engine work, they send them to P&W for overhaul so it could be either one.

Why Do Boeing 777 Engines Keep Exploding?





View attachment 15757


Looks like it could be a P&W issue.
Wait for the NTSB & FAA ruling.
JMHO xUT
We had a pretty nice cell at Pit. Was the best one on the east coast IIRC....State of the art, also had the old cell, was a good cell but kind of a clunker. Couldn't handle anything beyond a JT8.
 
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swamt

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I don't know who does their NDT, pretty sure United is in house. They do those with an eddy current probe and liquid penetrant. That Sioux City fan, NDT guy missed an indication.
Surely they don't still mag part. inspect still? I would think they would use imaging and or x-ray now days. Picks up more and penetrates deeper. Not my area of expertise but they must have a better means by now.
xUT posted that United started using thermal acoustic imaging in 2005. But that don't mean someone still didn't see it. Maybe it was so slight that it took a big load full of passengers payload and fuel at takeoff loads for the failure to happen. Not blaming anyone here. Just thinking out loud.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/photos-boeing-777-engine-failed-122426126.html
 

delldude

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Surely they don't still mag part. inspect still? I would think they would use imaging and or x-ray now days. Picks up more and penetrates deeper. Not my area of expertise but they must have a better means by now.
xUT posted that United started using thermal acoustic imaging in 2005. But that don't mean someone still didn't see it. Maybe it was so slight that it took a big load full of passengers payload and fuel at takeoff loads for the failure to happen. Not blaming anyone here. Just thinking out loud.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/photos-boeing-777-engine-failed-122426126.html

I don't know what they are doing, I'm sure on wing inspections on the blades, at least. That would be Eddy Current and/or Liquid Penetrant if they find suspect blades and change them out individually...which would go to their NDT shop for TI. They may have blade sets ready to swap out too.

The order means fan blades will need to be shipped to Pratt & Whitney for thermal acoustic imaging tests, the company said in a statement. About 125 Boeing 777 aircraft are powered by the PW4000-112 engine covered under the directive.

The previous inspection interval for Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines was 6,500 flight cycles. A flight cycle is defined as one takeoff and landing.

https://time.com/5941994/faa-grounds-boeing-777-engine/

That's one helluva lot of cycles.
 
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swamt

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I don't know what they are doing, I'm sure on wing inspections on the blades, at least. That would be Eddy Current and/or Liquid Penetrant if they find suspect blades and change them out individually...which would go to their NDT shop for TI. They may have blade sets ready to swap out too.

The order means fan blades will need to be shipped to Pratt & Whitney for thermal acoustic imaging tests, the company said in a statement. About 125 Boeing 777 aircraft are powered by the PW4000-112 engine covered under the directive.

The previous inspection interval for Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines was 6,500 flight cycles. A flight cycle is defined as one takeoff and landing.

https://time.com/5941994/faa-grounds-boeing-777-engine/

That's one helluva lot of cycles.
Good info and thanks for the link.
so original inspection was set at 6500 cycles. In my earlier post I said they would more than likely set a lower or sooner time frame of inspections going forward thinking they might cut the 6500 in half. Well they did way more than that, according to the article below they are moving inspections all the way up to 1000 cycles. WOW! Big move IMO, but I like the move. Never thought they would up the inspections by 85%. Now that may taper off as they get through a number of repeats and might move the inspections to a new time frame of, IDK, maybe what 2500-3000 cycles? Who knows.
Your right, 6500 IS a lot of cycles IMO for the loads on these big engines.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/united-777-plane-flew-fewer-040941874.html
 

xUT

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That's why the FAA is known as the Tombstone Agency.
Manufactures give their 'best educated guess' on MTBF when certified and increase it YOY because there wasn't a failure. We have seen this many times.
Yes, the inspection rate will be reduced and the FAA `will close the case.
Fortunately, no one died this time.
JMHO & PO xUT