United Revenues Increasing
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USA320Pilot
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This thread has definitely had its share of interest with 3,819 views and we should know the resolution to the debate within a few months.
United is required by the bankruptcy code and its 180-day extension to submit its Business Plan and Plan of Reorganization (POR) to the court in early December. Then the POR and Disclosure Statement must be voted on by the creditors committee and approved by Judge Wedoff before the airline can emerge from court protection.
However, prior to submitting its POR, United must:
1. Meet its DIP financing targets in October and November in light of falling traffic after Labor Day, where United spokesman Jeff Green told the Rock Mountain News yesterday, "We are headed into a slower travel season, so it's too soon to make predictions" about the company's future bankruptcy progress.
2. Find a way to fund its undefended pensions, where Glenn Tilton recently said union concession were not enough to bridge the gap.
3. Presumably submit an application to the ATSB, which projects a 7% profit margin in 7 years and have the application audited for accuracy by Fitch Rating. In light of Green’s comments, what effect will falling revenues have on the 7% profit margin?
4. Resolve business plan issues such as the Denver Airport negotiation, Atlantic Coast/Dulles negotiations, EETC resolutions, answer to the motion by San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, and New York airports to evict United, and satisfactory negotiations with other stakeholders (creditors, vendors, and lessors).
5. Repayment of up to $1.5 billion in DIP financing.
6. Obtain exit financing to provide sufficient liquidity upon emergence.
Separately, Itrade just reported, “On August 26, US Airways attorneys reported to the Department of Transportation that no domestic party has objected to the company’s application to code-share with Lufthansa. As such, expect approval very soon.â€
As stated before, I believe United will emerge from bankruptcy, but as Glenn Tilton recently told employees in a recorded message, “there will need to be tough choices made†to continue operations and I think the company will become smaller.
How will this end up? Nobody truly knows, but as I have said countless times, there have been on-going discussions between US Airways and United about some form of a UCT and it remains to be seen whether or not this will come to fruition.
Cosmo, since you are inflammatory with regard to calling people a "liar", can you tell me which comment above is false?
Regards,
Chip
United is required by the bankruptcy code and its 180-day extension to submit its Business Plan and Plan of Reorganization (POR) to the court in early December. Then the POR and Disclosure Statement must be voted on by the creditors committee and approved by Judge Wedoff before the airline can emerge from court protection.
However, prior to submitting its POR, United must:
1. Meet its DIP financing targets in October and November in light of falling traffic after Labor Day, where United spokesman Jeff Green told the Rock Mountain News yesterday, "We are headed into a slower travel season, so it's too soon to make predictions" about the company's future bankruptcy progress.
2. Find a way to fund its undefended pensions, where Glenn Tilton recently said union concession were not enough to bridge the gap.
3. Presumably submit an application to the ATSB, which projects a 7% profit margin in 7 years and have the application audited for accuracy by Fitch Rating. In light of Green’s comments, what effect will falling revenues have on the 7% profit margin?
4. Resolve business plan issues such as the Denver Airport negotiation, Atlantic Coast/Dulles negotiations, EETC resolutions, answer to the motion by San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, and New York airports to evict United, and satisfactory negotiations with other stakeholders (creditors, vendors, and lessors).
5. Repayment of up to $1.5 billion in DIP financing.
6. Obtain exit financing to provide sufficient liquidity upon emergence.
Separately, Itrade just reported, “On August 26, US Airways attorneys reported to the Department of Transportation that no domestic party has objected to the company’s application to code-share with Lufthansa. As such, expect approval very soon.â€
As stated before, I believe United will emerge from bankruptcy, but as Glenn Tilton recently told employees in a recorded message, “there will need to be tough choices made†to continue operations and I think the company will become smaller.
How will this end up? Nobody truly knows, but as I have said countless times, there have been on-going discussions between US Airways and United about some form of a UCT and it remains to be seen whether or not this will come to fruition.
Cosmo, since you are inflammatory with regard to calling people a "liar", can you tell me which comment above is false?
Regards,
Chip
Cosmo
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Chip:Chip Munn said:
You must be a politician -- when you don't like the direction of a topic, you simply change the subject. And BTW, I've only called one person a liar, and that person is YOU!
"Inflammatory"? The fact is you lied, you were caught in that lie, and then you refused to admit that you were wrong (and apparently you still refuse to do so). That, sir, is the truth, but it seems that "you can't handle the truth!" (Gee, now I know how Jack Nicholson felt. B) )
Tell you what -- after you admit that you lied when you erroneously claimed that United's "real" second quarter 2003 net loss was $1.096 billion in the face of evidence to the contrary, then I'll answer your question above.
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
For what it's worth, there has been a lot of talk again about UAL leaving the C concourse at LGA for gates unknown.Chip Munn said:
From what I understand pre 9/11, the plan was for UAL to leave C altogether, relocates to the US Air terminal and we (AA) take over the now vacant gates in C,with the gates to be split equally between mainline and Eagle.
Any credence to this? Who knows, this was gleaned from informal conversations with local management.
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Lets clarify for everyone, since even I had to read this a few times to get it straight.Chip Munn said:
Tilton said "there will need to be tough choices made." Period. End of sentence. OK this much is agreed and a very obvious statement. UA has made and continues to make tough choices everyday throughout the BK process. And let's also clarify that those are no longer recent words. It's old news and was said before the recent good words about revenue performance. If you insist on quoting Tilton can you atleast quote his more recent words.
CHIP ADDED IN HIS OWN WORDS THE REST OF THAT SENTENCE : to continue operations and I think the company will become smaller. These words were NEVER spoken by Tilton. I think it is important to point this out, since Chip misleadingly crammed all that into one sentence, making it sound as if this was said by Tilton.
Does anyone else here see that as taking a persons words out of context??!
Very sneaky Chip. This is exactly why people don't trust what you say around here.
767jetz
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Chip says:"However, prior to submitting its POR, United must: ... "
767jetz replies: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what you're starting to sound like, by your constant repetition. You keep telling us the obvious and you keep saying the same things over and over and over. Can't you come up with anything new? Do you think people at UA or anyone even casually watching doesn't know what must happen for UA to emerge? Your implications are that those things are not happening and will not happen. Those things ARE happening and WILL happen in due time. And when they do you will finally see the big picture that no one has let you see yet.
767jetz replies: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what you're starting to sound like, by your constant repetition. You keep telling us the obvious and you keep saying the same things over and over and over. Can't you come up with anything new? Do you think people at UA or anyone even casually watching doesn't know what must happen for UA to emerge? Your implications are that those things are not happening and will not happen. Those things ARE happening and WILL happen in due time. And when they do you will finally see the big picture that no one has let you see yet.
Chip,
I will break radio silence just this one time......USAirways had fast track CH11. They are much smaller than UAL, so therefore they had less to renegotiate. They were also forced to emerge from CH11.
UAL has none of these issues. They are larger, so it takes longer to complete the process. When UAL filed for BK protection they stated that it would take 18 months. It now looks like it will take less time to emerge. UAL is also under no pressure to emerge from BK.
IMHO you are comparing apples to oranges here. What's the point???
I will break radio silence just this one time......USAirways had fast track CH11. They are much smaller than UAL, so therefore they had less to renegotiate. They were also forced to emerge from CH11.
UAL has none of these issues. They are larger, so it takes longer to complete the process. When UAL filed for BK protection they stated that it would take 18 months. It now looks like it will take less time to emerge. UAL is also under no pressure to emerge from BK.
IMHO you are comparing apples to oranges here. What's the point???
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Cosmo is right Chip. When you don't like the direction of a subject, you simply change the subject. Personally I'm still waiting to hear your explanation of his VERY SPECIFIC account of your errors.Cosmo said:
But instead of being accountable and explaining yourself or admitting that you were wrong, you prefer to redirect people's attention. And then you repeat the same old claims and quote old information, when recent information doesn't support your opinions.
You even quote people out of context and add your own words to imply a conclusion of your own. This is what you did when you implied that Tilton said UA must be smaller to continue operation.
You know this is untrue, and wrote it in a way that was deceiving and misleading to the casual observer.
Is there a difference between deception and misleading, and being an outright liar? Probably. But it's not worth making that distinction. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
jetz
ZMAN777
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Deleted by moderator.
ZMAN777
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I know, I know! Next time I won't sugar-coat it!
Cheers,
Z B)
Cheers,
Z B)
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Tell us how you REALLY feel Z man! 
Actually, I couldn't have said it better myself. But If I did he might call me a "smart aleck" again, and I'm just too emotional to handle that.
Really... Who says that anymore?? Smart Aleck... WTF! over? ...
That's right up there with:
"liar liar pants on fire!"
"hoodlam!"
"do-gooder!"
"I'm rubber and you're glue!"
And my all time favorite... "I know you are, but what am I?"
Actually, I couldn't have said it better myself. But If I did he might call me a "smart aleck" again, and I'm just too emotional to handle that.
Really... Who says that anymore?? Smart Aleck... WTF! over? ...
That's right up there with:
"liar liar pants on fire!"
"hoodlam!"
"do-gooder!"
"I'm rubber and you're glue!"
And my all time favorite... "I know you are, but what am I?"
ZMAN777
Advanced
Oops! Guess I crossed the secret line and the thought Gestapo nabbed me. Guess it's not nice to hammer a FLAP online.
Still chuckling after that post anyway. Just hope the FLAP read it.
Cheers,
Z B)
Still chuckling after that post anyway. Just hope the FLAP read it.
Cheers,
Z B)
USA320Pilot
Veteran
Cosmo, in regard to United's second quarter results, I said United's loss would have been the numbers discussed if the airline had not received the IRS tax refund and the federal bailout. I believe you neglected to point that out.
767jetz, you said revenue is going to increase. Do you believe that will occur in the slower fourth quarter, when revenue always drops?
Chip
767jetz, you said revenue is going to increase. Do you believe that will occur in the slower fourth quarter, when revenue always drops?
Chip
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Yes I do. Or at the very least the drop off will not be so drastic as to cause UA to miss it's DIP hurdles.Chip Munn said:
UA's revenue has been consistently increasing to a greater degree than it's competition.
The many marketing initiatives are just starting to show dividends.
United has shown a slow and gradual return of it's business traveler.
United's excellent results recently, has been during a time when it's Pacific operation (the cash cow) was significantly scaled back. As we approach October United will be returning to it's FULL Pacific schedule. This will only serve to improve our performance and offset the decliine of liesure travel.
UA is continuing to expand it's market and customer base (code share with US and now China Air)
Finally, we are entering a time of the year when liesure travel drops off, but business travel increases. I believe this will tie us over until the very busy holiday season starting in November.
jetz
