United To Eliminate Pension Plans

[goingboeing]

Tilton states that United intends to eliminate unionized employees pension plans and replace existing labor agreements if the mechanics and machinists do not agree to permanent pay cuts and other concessions by May 11.

Would it be worth staying at United if you have no pension plan?

 

[Borescope]

Tilton states that United intends to eliminate unionized employees pension plans and replace existing labor agreements if the mechanics and machinists do not agree to permanent pay cuts and other concessions by May 11.

Would it be worth staying at United if you have no pension plan?

[post="261833"][/post]​

The union also stated that they wouldn't back down from their previous stance of a strike if Tilton goes ahead with his promise. I guess will have to wait and see who flinches first

 

[awayfrmitall]

Tilton states that United intends to eliminate unionized employees pension plans and replace existing labor agreements if the mechanics and machinists do not agree to permanent pay cuts and other concessions by May 11.

Would it be worth staying at United if you have no pension plan?

[post="261833"][/post]​

There's no guarantee that the pensions won't be cancelled even if the M & R do agree to concessions... in actuality they probably would be anyway so what exactly is he trying to threaten with?

Didn't the government pension plan people already make a move to take over the pensions for M&R?

It appears that Titons threats are nothing more than hot air because what he is threatening with is already happening...

Do I have it wrong???

 

[UAL_TECH]

Tilton states that United intends to eliminate unionized employees pension plans and replace existing labor agreements if the mechanics and machinists do not agree to permanent pay cuts and other concessions by May 11.

Would it be worth staying at United if you have no pension plan?

[post="261833"][/post]​

You ask a simple question to a complicated answer. My question to you is, what would you do?

UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

There's no guarantee that the pensions won't be cancelled even if the M & R do agree to concessions... in actuality they probably would be anyway so what exactly is he trying to threaten with?

Didn't the government pension plan people already make a move to take over the pensions for M&R?

It appears that Titons threats are nothing more than hot air because what he is threatening with is already happening...

Do I have it wrong???

[post="261845"][/post]​

awayfrmitall,

No, you do not have it wrong.

This is nothing new as this ‘warning’ has been mentioned numerous times in United ‘official’ statements over the last year or so. Technically, UAL is not terminating pensions as the PBGC is in the process of taking them in a distress termination (as we are 30% under funded). That is why all the ‘we must meet a consensual agreement’ verbiage was in the headlines while all along they were not funding our pension plan (waiting for the PBGC to take it). Legalese sucker bait!!!

All that would be left is our PBGC ‘cheese’, a ‘job’ with ‘hopes’ of retiree medical (80%/60%/40%) and flight benefits (???). Maybe(???) a 401k match for the remainder of our ‘service’.

JMHO, don’t take the May 11 date as cast in stone unless UAL wishes to play hardball (Mutual Armageddon). After years of this crap (ESOP+) the membership has grown numb to the ‘one sided’ sacrifices, threats, intimidation, ‘doom and gloom’ and have prepared themselves accordingly.

Take Care,
B) UAL_TECH

 

[awayfrmitall]

Link to Article

 

[Bear96]

Would it be worth staying at United if you have no pension plan?

[post="261833"][/post]​

It has been clear for at least a year to anyone who has been paying attention that DB pensions in the airline biz are history. Those who are still at UA have decided that the answer to your question is Yes. Those of us who left have decided the answer is No.

Soon it will be the turn for employees at the remaining airlines with DB plans to make that decision.

 

[uafa21]

It may also be the turn of the fed's. They are not going to sit back and kindly let Ua dump their pensions. The pensions are under funded by billions. If they let Ua dump then whats to keep all the other airlines from dumping their pensions to stay competetive as well.

The fed's may look at this and say, enough os enough, you dump we force liquidation to bring pensions current. Tilton is playing a game he may not win. He might win the battle but not the war.

 

[spacewaitress]

JMHO, don’t take the May 11 date as cast in stone unless UAL wishes to play hardball (Mutual Armageddon). After years of this crap (ESOP+) the membership has grown numb to the ‘one sided’ sacrifices, threats, intimidation, ‘doom and gloom’ and have prepared themselves accordingly.

So what's the bottom line regarding job actions that might occur by the IAM and AMFA. If it's understood that pensions are gone, what will cause a strike, or sickout, or whatever else I'm hearing rumoured.

What I've heard on other boards (employee boards) is watch out for May 12. Is there any reliable info out there?

 

[RowUnderDCA]

May 12th is the day that Braniff shut down (1982).

 

[ZMAN777]

The fed's may look at this and say, enough os enough, you dump we force liquidation to bring pensions current. Tilton is playing a game he may not win. He might win the battle but not the war.

[post="261901"][/post]​

Are you serious? Tell me of one federal regulation that would allow the Feds to dictate those terms to UAL. While you and others may not like the current methods employed to exit BK, let me assure you that this is all well within the legal bounds. Glenn Tilton simply knows that in order to line up exit financing the DB plans will have to go. Simple as that. Without it there won't be exit financing and no BK emergence.

Cheers,
Z B)

 

[UAL_TECH]

Link to Article

[post="261879"][/post]​

Also:
U.S. pension guarantees are at risk

But there's growing concern about the ability of automakers and auto parts suppliers to meet their pension obligations. In a Wall Street Journal interview, PBGC officials last week estimated the auto sector's unfunded pension liability at $45 billion to $50 billion.

"It is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode, and the longer we wait to defuse it, the more powerful the blast will be," said Randall S. Kroszner, an economics professor at the University of Chicago, who believes the situation closely parallels the savings and loan crisis in the 1980s. "As the sad history of the thrift crisis demonstrates, the wait-and-hope policy was a disaster."

:down:

B) UT

 

[uafa21]

zman777 - You must be a pilot and don't care if the rest of us have a pension or not. You pilots will get a $500M loan to fund your future pensions.

Another thing, the day Ua comes out of bk they will have ALL of their chargeoffs, pension funds dumped, leases dumped, unsecured loans dumped and bond issues dumped added back as a revenue. This will be in the billions. At that time Ua will have to pay taxes on the profit generated. It's not operating profit. Taxes on several billion dollars could be upwards of $500M or more. How will Ua pay that?

Also you can bet that the pbgc will come after Ua for a judgement and will win. I don't think the pension problem is the only problem this company has. Presently we will not make money even without the pensions. Tilton has been peice-mealing this thing along and stringing out employees. What's next?

 

[Busdrvr]

zman777 - You must be a pilot and don't care if the rest of us have a pension or not. You pilots will get a $500M loan to fund your future pensions.

Another thing, the day Ua comes out of bk they will have ALL of their chargeoffs, pension funds dumped, leases dumped, unsecured loans dumped and bond issues dumped added back as a revenue. This will be in the billions. At that time Ua will have to pay taxes on the profit generated. It's not operating profit. Taxes on several billion dollars could be upwards of $500M or more. How will Ua pay that?

Also you can bet that the pbgc will come after Ua for a judgement and will win. I don't think the pension problem is the only problem this company has. Presently we will not make money even without the pensions. Tilton has been peice-mealing this thing along and stringing out employees. What's next?

[post="261962"][/post]​

you are partly right. Threre are some very complex IRS rules, but in essence, the chargeoff will occur just prior to "reorganization" and the past losses will mitigate ALL of the "profit" of BK exit. Rest assured, when UAL leaves BK, the "Shareholder equity" will be ZERO

Oh, and at BK exit, the pre-petition UAL (and it's liabilities) will cease to exist

 

[uafa21]

It will be interesting to see what happens. Right now is a time for leadership not leadersh**ting on employees.

Look at what happened in Denver yesterday. Pasengers standing in lines for 5-6 hours due to a shortage of csr's, while other csr's were outside with picket signs. It doesn't send a clear message to revenue generating customers.

Ua presently has $6-8B in owed pension fundings shortfall. That amount as unforgiven debt will be huge along with the IND maitanance facility, all the other unsecured debt and other bond issues that were forgiven. When U came out of bk in 2003 they had a hefty profit due to unforgiven debt. Taxes have to be paid on that amount.