[FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Pit Guy:[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Your proprosed idea to cut pilot pay by $140,000 per year for Captains and about $94,000 per for First Officers, would represent about 90 percent of the total employee restructuring agreement concessions of $840 million per year.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]However, to have a meaningful cut to help us all out like you suggest, mechanic rates would have to go down to about $10 per hour. [/FONT][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]This would be about the same percentage cut that you suggest pilots take that is 60 percent of the previous pilot wage rate. [/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Why? Becasue per your logic 90 percent of the employees now make up close to 75 percent of the labor expense. Or another option to reduce this expense would be for the company outsource all heavy maintenance like Soutwest does and eliminate about 3,000 mechanic jobs. This would help reduce US Airways labor expense and make the IAM-M closer to their Southwest counterparts.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]See the Southwest pilots new contract takes a B737 Captain rate up to about $197 per hour and these pilots can obtain over time pay for almost $300 per hour. In fact, virtually every other labor group at US Airways can have over time but the pilots.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]I do not mean to pick a fight or make this labor vs labor, but the percentages of other socialzed concsious workers is to large. After all, 90 percent of the employees represent nearly 75 percent of the labor expense with the pilots now about 25 percent of the total expense.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]However, as I have said before we may not have to worry about this debate much longer. As you say Pit Guy (since you and Sabre started this debate), here we go again. [/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Chip[/FONT]
update on further concessions
- Thread starter sabre
- Start date
Chip Southwest does not contract out all heavy maintenance, they have hangars at LUV and PHX and are insourcing more work as we speak and there mechanics will be making $42 an hour
pitguy
Veteran
Stated in an above comment:
There is reason to believe the company may be liquidated; therefore, you will no longer have to lobby for further pilot pay cuts to socialize total labor expense.
By the way, your concept of paying US pilots 70-seat RJ wages to fly widebody and narrowbody mainline aircraft is understandable from your position within the company. However, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How about if all employee groups take the same type of cut and go down to Express wages?
Chip
***To reply I say. That is what I have been stating. The mechanics are now slightly above a feeder airline rate. Which has been advocated with approval by you Chip. I in return feel it would be good for the company to assume a similar pay standard which is also slightly above a feeder airline rate for the pilot group. This would really help our cause out in this time of need. Thank you for your understanding. I do not convey this in any hostile manner, but in a way to improve our desperate situation in the reality for which we are facing.***
There is reason to believe the company may be liquidated; therefore, you will no longer have to lobby for further pilot pay cuts to socialize total labor expense.
By the way, your concept of paying US pilots 70-seat RJ wages to fly widebody and narrowbody mainline aircraft is understandable from your position within the company. However, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How about if all employee groups take the same type of cut and go down to Express wages?
Chip
***To reply I say. That is what I have been stating. The mechanics are now slightly above a feeder airline rate. Which has been advocated with approval by you Chip. I in return feel it would be good for the company to assume a similar pay standard which is also slightly above a feeder airline rate for the pilot group. This would really help our cause out in this time of need. Thank you for your understanding. I do not convey this in any hostile manner, but in a way to improve our desperate situation in the reality for which we are facing.***
pitguy
Veteran
Please note that Southwest is bringing more work in-house every day. It is widely accepted by many 'in the know' that it is not wise to outsource some major sections of your airline maintenance due to quality, cost, and control constraints.
Some are taking what I stated and misconstruing it. No socialism here. Please try not negatively label something just because you disagree with it. I do not feel it is hard to understand we are a 'niche carrier. We fall in between a 'Big Player' and a 'Feeder'. Our wages should lye in there somewhere also. The mechanic group is now slightly above a feeder airline wage rates. There is nothing wrong with the pilots doing it also. We have great opportunity to emerge better than over as a company form this. A company does not have to be bigger to be of more quality or to be a better financial returning investment. This new pilot wage could turn out to be one of the best investments you have ever made.
Some are taking what I stated and misconstruing it. No socialism here. Please try not negatively label something just because you disagree with it. I do not feel it is hard to understand we are a 'niche carrier. We fall in between a 'Big Player' and a 'Feeder'. Our wages should lye in there somewhere also. The mechanic group is now slightly above a feeder airline wage rates. There is nothing wrong with the pilots doing it also. We have great opportunity to emerge better than over as a company form this. A company does not have to be bigger to be of more quality or to be a better financial returning investment. This new pilot wage could turn out to be one of the best investments you have ever made.
[P][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Black Wind:[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]I'm not burnt, I'm just thinking of ways to help out. Sabre & Pitguy started this idea of additional concessions by one labor group, not me. I applaud the mechanics who started this conversation becasue they are just trying to help out, just like me. [/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]After all, the mechanics are some of highest paid airline employees in the business and there are enormous tangible economic benefits to outsourcing maintenance. But the interesting part of this is that only about 10 percent of the employees would be hurt, at either UA or US, versus the remaining 90 percent, which is humanistic.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]In fact, this would be a tangible corporate cost control benefit for Glenn Tilton to execute at UA as well or could even be an industry leading trend.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]I'm sure glad mechanics started this concept of one employee group taking disproportionate cuts just to help out. [/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Chip[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]I'm sure glad mechanics started this concept of one employee group taking disproportionate cuts just to help out. [/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Chip[/FONT][/P]
[BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Cat III:[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]I believe I am grown up and very rational. I did not start this attack on other employees, your fellow IAM colleagues did. Did you miss that point? If IAM members believe it is appropriate for wide body Captains to fly these aircraft at 70-seat RJ rates, why shouldn't we use the Southwest airline model and eliminate in-house heavy maintenance?[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]I have done a preliminary analysis and the cost savings would be enormous by having heavy maintenance outsourced. [/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Chip[/FONT]
pitguy
Veteran
I 30 year mechanic getting $52,000 a year. It is hard to send your professional shopper wife to the mall in her Mercedes on that. Do your homework Chip. You are starting to fray.
The commuters pay almost that.
The commuters pay almost that.
Chip,
YOU TALK ABOUT OUTSOURSED, YOUR UNION,ALPA HAS OUTSOURCED PLENTY OF PILOT JOBS ALREADY.IM'S SURE THEY AREN'T DONE YET.I HOPE DAVE GETS RID OF MAINLINE AND RUNS AN ALL R.J. FLEET.YOU GUYS HAVE MORE TO LOSE.
YOU TALK ABOUT OUTSOURSED, YOUR UNION,ALPA HAS OUTSOURCED PLENTY OF PILOT JOBS ALREADY.IM'S SURE THEY AREN'T DONE YET.I HOPE DAVE GETS RID OF MAINLINE AND RUNS AN ALL R.J. FLEET.YOU GUYS HAVE MORE TO LOSE.
I did not start this attack on other employees, your fellow IAM colleagues did. Did you miss that point?
I dont know but I seem to recall Chip having a lot to say about how mechanics had better agree to concessions a while back.
I dont know but I seem to recall Chip having a lot to say about how mechanics had better agree to concessions a while back.
Chip,
Southwest does some of it's own heavy checks in-house.They are called 1/2 D checks.They are done in Dallas. This airline is starting to get to you.RELAX,IT IS OUT OF YOUR CONTROL.
Southwest does some of it's own heavy checks in-house.They are called 1/2 D checks.They are done in Dallas. This airline is starting to get to you.RELAX,IT IS OUT OF YOUR CONTROL.
- Thread Starter
- #43
It is true that contracting out heavy maintenance would save millions, however, it would never stand a chance of passing in a contract unless US AIRWAYS agreed to put forth no-layoff language once again in the contract to protect current active employees. Personally, I would still vote no on any new concession but unfortunately most of my fellow comrades would sell away anything just to keep their wage and job. The key here is 'wage and job'.
If US AIRWAYS goes after wages and benefits then it might as well close down. The problem the company has is that a mechanic can get a job elsewhere in other industries at comparable rates. Whereas a Pilot by definition is stuck to airline work and more vulnerable if this company closes shop.
If I was a pilot I would not give up anything else but I started this tread [so don't accuse Chip of starting it] because I do in fact believe most pilots are willing to give more.
I respect Chip Munn for putting his name out here so I will not disrespect him but I do believe his views would support my thesis that pilots would give more. Although if other employees don't give up more then I would say that even Chip might be reluctant. Do you agree Chip?
A very difficult situation for our company if it does not get more from lessors and other creditors.
If US AIRWAYS goes after wages and benefits then it might as well close down. The problem the company has is that a mechanic can get a job elsewhere in other industries at comparable rates. Whereas a Pilot by definition is stuck to airline work and more vulnerable if this company closes shop.
If I was a pilot I would not give up anything else but I started this tread [so don't accuse Chip of starting it] because I do in fact believe most pilots are willing to give more.
I respect Chip Munn for putting his name out here so I will not disrespect him but I do believe his views would support my thesis that pilots would give more. Although if other employees don't give up more then I would say that even Chip might be reluctant. Do you agree Chip?
A very difficult situation for our company if it does not get more from lessors and other creditors.
It is true that contracting out heavy maintenance would save millions, however, it would never stand a chance of passing in a contract unless US AIRWAYS agreed to put forth no-layoff language once again in the contract to protect current active employees. Personally, I would still vote no on any new concession but unfortunately most of my fellow comrades would sell away anything just to keep their wage and job.
I BELIEVE ON THIS ROUND (ALL) WOULD AGREE WITH YOU AND VOTE NO
EVERYONE IS FED UP AND NO LONGER OPEN FOR GIVE BACKS, PERIOD!
If US AIRWAYS goes after wages and benefits then it might as well close down.
AMEN BROTHER
The problem the company has is that a mechanic can get a job elsewhere in other industries at comparable rates. Whereas a Pilot by definition is stuck to airline work and more vulnerable if this company closes shop.
People are either leaving the company or searching for a viable company minus the heartachs this one has provided us since I have been here, TOO LONG!
If I was a pilot I would not give up anything else but I started this tread because I do in fact believe most pilots are willing to give more.
What choice does a highly paid but limited skilled individual have in todays world, either bend or break.
I respect Chip Munn for putting his name out here so I will not disrespect him but I do believe his views would support my thesis that pilots would give more. Although if other employees don't give up more then I would say that even Chip might be reluctant. Do you agree Chip?
I DISAGREE HERE, CHIP IS TRUE BLUE TILL THE END
A very difficult situation for our company if it does not get more from lessors and other creditors.
DIFFICULT IS A UNDERSTANDMENT, THIS COMPANY LIVES FROM IF TO IF.
I know I know, if I don't like it resign, if things work out that will be soon and not soon enough either! God Bless all my fellow co-workers they sure need it. I wish them all well whatever the future holds for this eternally unstable company. It was like being on a rough flight the entire time I have been here.
I BELIEVE ON THIS ROUND (ALL) WOULD AGREE WITH YOU AND VOTE NO
EVERYONE IS FED UP AND NO LONGER OPEN FOR GIVE BACKS, PERIOD!
If US AIRWAYS goes after wages and benefits then it might as well close down.
AMEN BROTHER
The problem the company has is that a mechanic can get a job elsewhere in other industries at comparable rates. Whereas a Pilot by definition is stuck to airline work and more vulnerable if this company closes shop.
People are either leaving the company or searching for a viable company minus the heartachs this one has provided us since I have been here, TOO LONG!
If I was a pilot I would not give up anything else but I started this tread because I do in fact believe most pilots are willing to give more.
What choice does a highly paid but limited skilled individual have in todays world, either bend or break.
I respect Chip Munn for putting his name out here so I will not disrespect him but I do believe his views would support my thesis that pilots would give more. Although if other employees don't give up more then I would say that even Chip might be reluctant. Do you agree Chip?
I DISAGREE HERE, CHIP IS TRUE BLUE TILL THE END
A very difficult situation for our company if it does not get more from lessors and other creditors.
DIFFICULT IS A UNDERSTANDMENT, THIS COMPANY LIVES FROM IF TO IF.
I know I know, if I don't like it resign, if things work out that will be soon and not soon enough either! God Bless all my fellow co-workers they sure need it. I wish them all well whatever the future holds for this eternally unstable company. It was like being on a rough flight the entire time I have been here.
