UPMC is now out of network

[UPNAWAY]

The only real solution to HC cost issues is high deductible catastrophic insurance coverage and we all pay cash for Dr. Visits routine test etc. (and that could be tax free cash from a HSA). People do not need insurance for HC only for Hospitalization or chronic care issues and if we paid cash at the Dr.s office and labs cost would stay low due to competition. Right now cost of treatment is almost a non consideration for most insured people. De-couple it from employers so we ca shop for it just like car insurance and we solve 90% of all the issues out there. It aint rocket science.

 

[700UW]

Are you out of your mind?

People need insurance, one serious illness or accident, or even long term health issues will bankrupt you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Are you out of your mind?

People need insurance, one serious illness or accident, or even long term health issues will bankrupt you.

BK works for me. It worked for US/HP a total of three times. In personal BK you get to keep a great deal of your assets. I F*ck-it, do it to them before they do it to you! Learn from the corporations, "Hey, nothing personal, just a business decision."

 

[CallawayGolf]

Are you out of your mind?

People need insurance, one serious illness or accident, or even long term health issues will bankrupt you.

You did read his post about having a high deductible catastrophic plan right?

But of course you are right if you can't afford to pay for your own health care then by all means look for someone with a bigger wallet to pay your bills for you. If they don't surrender their money willingly you should be fully entitled to take it from them by force. It's the entitlement American way these days.

 

[CallawayGolf]

BK works for me. It worked for US/HP a total of three times. In personal BK you get to keep a great deal of your assets. I F*ck-it, do it to them before they do it to you! Learn from the corporations, "Hey, nothing personal, just a business decision."

Ah, the new American dream has been realized. A chicken in every pot and a bankruptcy filing for every household. No need to take personal responsibility for anything because there is always someone or some evil corporation to pay for the things you would like to have but can't afford on your own. What could possibly go wrong with millions of Americans filing for bankruptcy and sticking the doctors and hospitals with the bills? No chance health care costs would go up under that plan bold solution for skyrocketing health care costs.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Ah, the new American dream has been realized. A chicken in every pot and a bankruptcy filing for every household. No need to take personal responsibility for anything because there is always someone or some evil corporation to pay for the things you would like to have but can't afford on your own. What could possibly go wrong with millions of Americans filing for bankruptcy and sticking the doctors and hospitals with the bills? No chance health care costs would go up under that plan bold solution for skyrocketing health care costs.

You know I used to be like you then Bush and Obama struck with their naked greed and pandering to their base at the expense of the working man and woman. Over the years I've worked for some of the worlds premier companies. Canon, Xerox, Minolta, Toshiba and the truth is you're hired to be fired. One of the above named recently downsized 108 field people and NOT ONE was under 50 and in order to get their severance package they had to sign a document agreeing not to sue. NICE!!!! I knew every last one of those 108, some who have been there since the 70's.

It's all about me now and pricks like Scott Kirby are the reason why. Throw in that useless back bench junior senator posing as President and the whole lot of them can KMA in Macy's window. Ron Paul never took a dime of Medicare or Medicaid when he was a Doctor, he treated them all for FREE and he's considered a kook by the ruling class. Bank of America and all of the rest chose to live by the sword by being liars, cheats and thieves of the first order. Same goes with any and all corporations. Now for me it's do it to them before they do it to me. My loyalty extends right up until payday. Something better comes along? SCREW YOU, I'm gone.

I'm in the middle of negotiating with a local employer who wants me to do some consulting work on a per Diem basis . They won't commit to a specific number of days but want me to guarantee that I'll stay until the project is over without signing a contract. So we did a handshake deal. Truth is if I get a better offer two weeks from now I'm off like a Prom Dress. They don't want to sign a contract? Screw them. I'll extend them the same courtesy as they've extended me, NONE.

The Politicians and their corporate backers created this attitude. In a way it's no different then fully leveraging my DM account & Vouchers. I flew PHL-BRU for $22.95 and PHL-LAX for $5.95 out of pocket by judicious use of vouchers. Do I feel bad? not even a little! US wrote the rules and I played by them, broke no laws of company policies. Using the BK laws to avoid payment of medical bills or any bill for that matter IS playing by the rules, it's just that you're leveraging the rules to your advantage. US does it all the time with their unions, telling them "Grieve it" knowing full well it will be months or years before the issue is ever heard.

Pricks like Kirby taught me well so don't be angry if I apply the lessons taught by him and his ilk. Like I said it's not personal it's just business.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You know I used to be like you then Bush and Obama struck with their naked greed and pandering to their base at the expense of the working man and woman. Over the years I've worked for some of the worlds premier companies. Canon, Xerox, Minolta, Toshiba and the truth is you're hired to be fired. One of the above named recently downsized 108 field people and NOT ONE was under 50 and in order to get their severance package they had to sign a document agreeing not to sue. NICE!!!! I knew every last one of those 108, some who have been there since the 70's.

Well I'm no fan of either president/administration, but selling out the working man began with FDR's New Deal and then the assault intensified under LBJ with the Great Society with a whole lot of Keynesian economic lunacies thrown in to ensure our national destruction. The problem is that these untenable policies hurt every American and every American business despite their lofty ideals of playing Robin Hood to try and balance out the perceived inequities and injustices of life. The problem with bankruptcy, personal or corporate, is that it - like most "solutions" in our nation - fails to address the root-cause issues that created the poor economics in the first place. Government interference in the private sector is the true problem as it interrupts natural market forces. Once government escalates the cost of doing business American companies are weakened in the face of global competition which is not equally burdened. Thus, American businesses that require blue collar workers cannot compete with a mandated $7-10 minimum wage law and a overtime law that kicks in at 40-hours per week while they also have to pay payroll taxes, worker compensation payments, medical benefits, punitive corporate income taxes not to mention the high cost of dealing with the labor cartels known as unions. jobs are lost not because corporations are evil and uncaring, but because the government has diluted any hope of gaining a competitive advantage in a free market system.

It's all about me now and pricks like Scott Kirby are the reason why. Throw in that useless back bench junior senator posing as President and the whole lot of them can KMA in Macy's window. Ron Paul never took a dime of Medicare or Medicaid when he was a Doctor, he treated them all for FREE and he's considered a kook by the ruling class. Bank of America and all of the rest chose to live by the sword by being liars, cheats and thieves of the first order. Same goes with any and all corporations. Now for me it's do it to them before they do it to me. My loyalty extends right up until payday. Something better comes along? SCREW YOU, I'm gone.

I'm in the middle of negotiating with a local employer who wants me to do some consulting work on a per Diem basis . They won't commit to a specific number of days but want me to guarantee that I'll stay until the project is over without signing a contract. So we did a handshake deal. Truth is if I get a better offer two weeks from now I'm off like a Prom Dress. They don't want to sign a contract? Screw them. I'll extend them the same courtesy as they've extended me, NONE.

The Politicians and their corporate backers created this attitude. In a way it's no different then fully leveraging my DM account & Vouchers. I flew PHL-BRU for $22.95 and PHL-LAX for $5.95 out of pocket by judicious use of vouchers. Do I feel bad? not even a little! US wrote the rules and I played by them, broke no laws of company policies. Using the BK laws to avoid payment of medical bills or any bill for that matter IS playing by the rules, it's just that you're leveraging the rules to your advantage. US does it all the time with their unions, telling them "Grieve it" knowing full well it will be months or years before the issue is ever heard.

Pricks like Kirby taught me well so don't be angry if I apply the lessons taught by him and his ilk. Like I said it's not personal it's just business.

This all sounds like a self-rationalized excuse to ignore what you know to be the right way to conduct yourself. Living by the principle that "everyone else does it so I should too" will not solve the economic situation were are in. People need to take personal responsibility for their actions and for paying their own bills. Ron Paul gets a lot of cheers in my house for his firm stance on the Constitution and for proposing a decent first step at cutting $1 trillion in government spending. However, until he oversees the complete dismantling of Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and the 185 or so means-tested entitlement programs I will still view him as having a long way to go to getting this country back on solid economic grounds. Until then it does no good to throw darts at Canon, Xerox, Minolta, Toshiba or US Airways for their attempts to survive in the current anti-business environment. I disagree with the way most bankruptcy proceedings are handled in this country, but I don't blame Doug for making a run at US or DL while they were under court protections while he was CEO of a solvent airline that was competing outside of the bankruptcy courts.

Obama, Bush, Pelosi, Reid, the justices of the SCOTUS and nearly everyone that preceded them in the past century are responsible for the troubled times we live in. Unconstitutional bailouts aside, there is no need to blame the corporations that are trying to survive the brutal assault Washington continues to levy against them.

 

[Kev3188]

So we did a handshake deal.

They don't want to sign a contract? Screw them. I'll extend them the same courtesy as they've extended me, NONE.

Where I come from, you might as well have signed one.

What happened to the days of a man's word being his bond?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Where I come from, you might as well have signed one.

What happened to the days of a man's word being his bond?

Actually in most states a handshake is technically considered a contractually-binding arrangement, though enforcement is obviously quite difficult. Of course very few employment contracts are enforceable anyway even if you have it signed by two witnesses and a notary. Courts are extremely hesitant to bind an employee to the terms contained in any such contract. Selective application of contract terms is right up a liberal court's alley.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

There were and are many ways for her to get treated in this country and not pay a dime.

Actually, you are wrong, in so many different ways.

Yes, she can go to an emergency room, costing the rest of us some ten times what it would normally cost. She is then put on a list, dependent on a corporate death squad making a decision about whether she lives or dies.

Been there, done that. Personal experience. To allow "profit" to decide whether someone lives or dies is un-American and certainly not "christian".

Heck, I'll take the apparent paralysis of bureaucracy over the swift knife of the "almighty" quarterly report.

You may also wish to re-read the Constitution and ponder what exactly is meant by providing for the "general welfare".

 

[CallawayGolf]

Actually, you are wrong, in so many different ways.

Yes, she can go to an emergency room, costing the rest of us some ten times what it would normally cost. She is then put on a list, dependent on a corporate death squad making a decision about whether she lives or dies.

Been there, done that. Personal experience. To allow "profit" to decide whether someone lives or dies is un-American and certainly not "christian".

Heck, I'll take the apparent paralysis of bureaucracy over the swift knife of the "almighty" quarterly report.

You may also wish to re-read the Constitution and ponder what exactly is meant by providing for the "general welfare".

First off the preamble reads "promote the General Welfare", not "provide for the general welfare". There is quite a difference between "promoting" and "providing".

Promoting the general welfare does not mean that the federal government has the right or the responsibility to ensure all citizens are generally happy and healthy. Rather, the Officers of the United States government have the responsibility to ensure that their actions do not favor one group of citizens over another by legislative fiat. The General Welfare provision serves as constitutional counterbalance to any attempts to provide federal benefits or protections to any subset of the American people. What Congress enacts through legislation must be fully accessible and equally beneficial to all citizens. Providing any medical benefits to any individual or isolated group of individuals is not an authorized function of the federal government. Doing so not only does not fall under the General Welfare provision, but it is fundamentally unconstitutional because it is not a part of the enumerated powers, and because it provides an unequal benefit to only a certain few members of society which is prohibited by the Constitution.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

First off the preamble reads "promote the General Welfare", not "provide for the general welfare". There is quite a difference between "promoting" and "providing".

Promoting the general welfare does not mean that the federal government has the right or the responsibility to ensure all citizens are generally happy and healthy. Rather, the Officers of the United States government have the responsibility to ensure that their actions do not favor one group of citizens over another by legislative fiat. The General Welfare provision serves as constitutional counterbalance to any attempts to provide federal benefits or protections to any subset of the American people. What Congress enacts through legislation must be fully accessible and equally beneficial to all citizens. Providing any medical benefits to any individual or isolated group of individuals is not an authorized function of the federal government. Doing so not only does not fall under the General Welfare provision, but it is fundamentally unconstitutional because it is not a part of the enumerated powers, and because it provides an unequal benefit to only a certain few members of society which is prohibited by the Constitution.

There is very little, in my opinion, difference. Aside from that, you decide to apply non-logic to "make your point", picking and choosing parts without applying the whole. Unsupportable, my friend.

Legislation must be fully accessible and equally beneficial to all citizens. I agree. No one is advocating providing "unequal" benefits, ever. I am advocating providing a basic health level so that you, in your gated community, need never suffer from the workers coming in and infecting you, the elite, with, say, small pox.

This will become more important as the global heat index rises.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You may also wish to re-read the Constitution and ponder what exactly is meant by providing for the "general welfare".

At the time it was written it certainly didn't include health insurance since that is a 20th century invention. In the early 20th century the biggest "cost" of illness to the average person by far was missed work. Some did purchase "sickness" insurance, comparable to disability insurance today, that made up for lost wages due to illness. In the 1920's several attempts to impose mandatory health insurance nationwide were rebuffed simply because most people saw no need for health insurance.

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

There is very little, in my opinion, difference. Aside from that, you decide to apply non-logic to "make your point", picking and choosing parts without applying the whole. Unsupportable, my friend.

Legislation must be fully accessible and equally beneficial to all citizens. I agree. No one is advocating providing "unequal" benefits, ever. I am advocating providing a basic health level so that you, in your gated community, need never suffer from the workers coming in and infecting you, the elite, with, say, small pox.

This will become more important as the global heat index rises.

There is a world of difference between promoting and providing. The former is a policy protection that ensures each citizen is fully free to pursue the blessings of life, liberty and happiness without government interference and political corruption. The latter can only be accomplished by injuring one group of citizens through taxes to provide a benefit to another group of citizens. This can never be provided equally as mandated by the Constitution which is why it wasn't even considered for the first 150+ years of the Union. We the people never granted Congress the constitutional authority to provide such am unequal benefit which means the federal government is barred from doing so by the very document which gives our nation the right to exist in the first place. Congress, along with the other branches of government, ignores this fundamental restriction to our national peril. The $100 trillion dollars we now owe to this untenable set of programs can never be paid no matter how much you want to tax the income producers in this nation. Set their tax rates to 100% and confiscate every dollar in revenue that comes into every American business and you will still be woefully short of paying off that debt. The founders of this nation never intended to see it go bankrupt by "providing" entitlements which is why there is no provision for them in the Constituion.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Where I come from, you might as well have signed one.

What happened to the days of a man's word being his bond?

Look around Kev, Look right at the "Pile-Its" and ask your question. Hell those guys actually agreed to "Binding Arbitration" and still no deal. A "Handshake" and "my word is my bond" are quaint and colorful relics of a bygone age as is "Get it in writing" as all three of them are as useless as Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan combined.

I operated under those principles for many years and I support Ron Paul because I believe in honor and integrity. It's just impractical in the modern world.

DUI while CEO? No problem, no shame, business as usual. Board gives him a raise and a bigger bonus.
POTUS says a US Citizen was a "threat" and orders his death violating the COTUS? No problem, a gutless Congress looks the other way. Better hope you're Government approved Kev or you could be next. Take Kirby's answer when quizzed about the Res migration, "Things went as well as can be expected" Oh really tell that to those who waited four hours and longer in check in lines.
Christmas Baggage Meltdown and no executive gets fired. Bank of America has thousands of "Robo-Signers" executing foreclosure documents then cries for a bailout.

Getting the picture Kev? If you believe in a "Handshake" you're a Dinosaur. I wish I were wrong, but to mush evidence to the contrary. I'm seriously looking into place off shore to retire to where I can afford to live and not have to deal with this crap, where maybe there are a few old dinosaurs like me still roaming the earth. Mean time this Dinosaur is not content to eat veggies.