US Airways Has AA Labor Backing for AMR Takeover: Sources

[chris perry]

text,
AA is not proposing wage cuts other than perhaps as revisions to freeze rather than terminate the pensions.
Labor is supporting a potential takeover in an attempt to avoid the huge number of cuts... it is highly doubtful they will be as supportive if AA continues w/ the layoffs - which is likely because the 1113 process and exclusivity are still moving forward.

Informer,
labor could indeed decide to take the EA path - but I'm not sure even labor believed what was coming... UA's pilots didn't years later. AA's labor groups are out to get the best deal- right now they think that comes by supporting a merger - but if they knew what cuts had to be made to make AA/US work, they wouldn't back that plan either. Problem is that Parker doesn't have to be truthful about his plans - and labor will fall for whatever plan they think will work, esp. if it means minimizing the impact of the cuts - which in this case means the loss of about 11K dues paying members. No one should take their eyes off of labor's goal.
.
Actually, according to AMR's 1113 documents, they are proposing a CASM almost identical to DL - and about 1 cent better than UA. Given that AA and UA have traditionally played ping pong - one is doing well, one is struggling, and then switch roles- that is enough for AA to survive. And keep in mind that UA's costs will rise even further as it seeks labor peace as part of merger integration - or it will play the same game Parker is now playing and play one group against the other.
Either way, if AA gets costs on par with DL - who has a pretty good track record of staying at the lower end of the network carrier CASM - AA will be able to compete since DL won't be doing any better and UA will be above.
.
It would seem likely that the pilot pension funds will be terminated based on the same lump sum provisions that existed in the DL pilot pension plan. The PBGC and the pilots group gained about $2B worth of claims in equity against the reorganized DL. It wouldn't be surprising if a similar amount occurs ofr AA's pilots. If AMR retains the rest of its pensions, as DL did, they will probably need $500M or more in additional funding in order to come up w/ a plan. So far, it isn't clear where that money will come from. Taking on more debt is not likely going to be the answer since AMR has already said its aircraft replacement plan will generate expenditures far larger than its other network carrier peers.

No pay-cuts is smoke and mirror's. Healthcare doubles and out of pocket costs are 3500.00 a year,before you even get a benefit. Sounds like a wage raping to me.

 

[wings396]

I view your previous anti-pilot posts as toxic, pal. How about you leave the hall monitor duties to the mods...

Nah, they left it up to me when it comes to you..
Don't refer to everyone as toxic, when it is only a select group. Watching some of you idiots bickering for years is sickening. As if it weren't bad enough that you guys have Thousands of pages dedicated to it, some of you feel the need to infect just about every topic you can.

 

[wings396]

AA has announced that there will be over 14000 layoffs of both union and non union workforce. US claims can reduce that amount. Doesn't say by how many and it doesn't say how much employees will need to pay cut.

Is outsourcing a possibility? Because technically the jobs will be saved, but the pay cut be enormous.

Did you see the pay rates already?

 

[zflygrl]

So let me get this straight..... If this cluster goes through Parker would have three companies working under one name....with him saying it is one company....ALL three companies employees would be making different pay....and ALL three would have different benefits.  The pilots of each work group......West (AWA).....Middle (AA).....East (USA) would feel that the other work group made out better then they did....which would cause A LOT of discention between said work groups and all the while Mr. Parker would be sitting back on the sidelines and laughing.  Well if the AA pilots feel they can trust the management at USA.....as the pilots at the original USA did they will only have themselves to blame when they get burned.
This time the One Work Group is not going to FLY..... Do I see a few years in court coming???

*******DON'T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS UNTIL THEY HATCH*****

 

[BoeingBoy]

So let me get this straight.....

Except for FA's and pilots, US is one company. Every other group has merged seniority and contracts. So for over half the US employees it would be a merger with AA - no 3 party nonsense. The FA's recently turned down a tentative - their seniority was settled quickly since both groups (US & HP) were represented by the AFA which has a DOH policy for seniority integrations. How long it'll be before the US FA's have a joint contract is up in the air, but almost certainly not as long as the pilots. With the pilots the whole seniority integration is in the courts and may stay there for a while yet. Then there's the joint contract to negotiate but it could take a long time to ratify since some number of the East pilots swear they'll keep voting a contract down if it used the arbitrated integrated seniority list.

Jim

 

[ebwgs]

So let me get this straight..... If this cluster goes through Parker would have three companies working under one name....with him saying it is one company....ALL three companies employees would be making different pay....and ALL three would have different benefits.  The pilots of each work group......West (AWA).....Middle (AA).....East (USA) would feel that the other work group made out better then they did....which would cause A LOT of discention between said work groups and all the while Mr. Parker would be sitting back on the sidelines and laughing.  Well if the AA pilots feel they can trust the management at USA.....as the pilots at the original USA did they will only have themselves to blame when they get burned.
This time the One Work Group is not going to FLY..... Do I see a few years in court coming???

*******DON'T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS UNTIL THEY HATCH*****

All that is known about all of this is what's being reported in the media. And although much about what you stated regarding the yet to be fully completed merger of US is true, until we know what the unions are being told by US management it would be a wise thing to relax and not extrapolate ourselves into a cluster $@&? frenzy. It is still too early to see how this will play out regardless of what is being reported in the media.

 

[ebwgs]

I guess this was the vaunted "big announcement" everyone was speculating on this week.

 

[Mach85ER]

So let me get this straight..... If this cluster goes through Parker would have three companies working under one name....with him saying it is one company....ALL three companies employees would be making different pay....and ALL three would have different benefits.  The pilots of each work group......West (AWA).....Middle (AA).....East (USA) would feel that the other work group made out better then they did....which would cause A LOT of discention between said work groups and all the while Mr. Parker would be sitting back on the sidelines and laughing.  Well if the AA pilots feel they can trust the management at USA.....as the pilots at the original USA did they will only have themselves to blame when they get burned.
This time the One Work Group is not going to FLY..... Do I see a few years in court coming???

*******DON'T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS UNTIL THEY HATCH*****

My guess is from the AA pilot side is that APA is in contact with both the Easties and the Westies and APA won't support it unless all are on the same paycheck and the seniority issue, specifically fences and job protections are written down in stone before it goes through. I know ZERO about the alleged deal so nobody repeat my internet drool post as some Gospel.

Without looking closer at the issue, I was against it earlier. After looking at the seniority retirement numbers with protective protective fences, 7 years is the rumour, retiring 25% of the combined pilot group during that period will alleviate alot of the fighting for scraps issues even if there is zero growth from the combined entity.

The more I read and think, the less I think Horton's plan to stand alone, is DOA whether I like it or not. AA is dead if it stinks it will run a service business under an imposed 1113C close to what stands now. Their game might be act like a bad arse up to the eleventh hour that sweeten the pot slightly and shift a few things, but that scam works on a young and stupid pilot group, not one that AA has been cheating at poker with for 15 years. I can't see any group financing this mess other than an IAG buy-in/takeover with a posionous, no settled contract situation. there is also a good chance as it stands of a wildcat after an imposed 1113C, RL-Act or not.

Where does Douggie get the money? That question is well above my head. I can say this. APA hits Douggie up for money because he wants AA, Douggie gets a 3 way settled pilot contract and investors like it (maybe/maybe not). Douggie also threatens to take AA to Star Alliance, IAG pays Douggie money with a ownership percentage to keep it in the family. LanTam would also provide some pressure to IAG to do this. IAG needs them in Oneworld.

Just some random conspiracy theory musings.

 

[EastCheats]

Nah, they left it up to me when it comes to you..
Don't refer to everyone as toxic, when it is only a select group. Watching some of you idiots bickering for years is sickening. As if it weren't bad enough that you guys have Thousands of pages dedicated to it, some of you feel the need to infect just about every topic you can.

"Station outsourced in Jan, agents shown the door approx early December. It's been said that the company feared the agents would sabotage the operation during the holidays. There have been a boat load of stations outsourced where our people worked right upto the last day.

Hell, some of them were even stupid enough to hang around longer to train their replacements."

I'd call the statement you made above as toxic. You were not directing that at a pilot, were you? So who were you referring to as stupid in that post above? Got an answer for that, idiot? You are the infection as far as I am concerned.

If you can't handle the pilot dispute, that's too bad, whiner. Get used to it, there will be no resolution until one side understands that binding arbitration is.....binding.

 

[wings396]

"Station outsourced in Jan, agents shown the door approx early December. It's been said that the company feared the agents would sabotage the operation during the holidays. There have been a boat load of stations outsourced where our people worked right upto the last day.

Hell, some of them were even stupid enough to hang around longer to train their replacements."

I'd call the statement you made above as toxic. You were not directing that at a pilot, were you? So who were you referring to as stupid in that post above? Got an answer for that, idiot? You are the infection as far as I am concerned.

If you can't handle the pilot dispute, that's too bad, whiner. Get used to it, there will be no resolution until one side understands that binding arbitration is.....binding.

Well there Mr Professor, to set the record straight for you, the above referenced took place SEVEN YEARS AGO. Back in early 2005 over 20 stations were outsourced, and all locations kept the employees working right up to their last day. As I stated, in some locations the company attempted and succeeded at keeping Mainline employees around for a few extra weeks to train the contract vendors. IMO, this was morally wrong to do, and none of those losing jobs cared for those who stayed. Keep in mind that this didn't result in a never ending pissing match between the fleet group. None of us thought that it was right, we voiced our opinions, and moved on. Many that made the decision to
"help out" later realized that they had done the wrong thing, and admitted it.
If you and a select others want to continue to make yourselves the laughing stock of these boards, and the industry, have at it. Like it or not, if this AA deal does happen, your battle will be lost in the shuffle.
After some of what you post, you can actually call someone else an Idiot? It scares me to think that some of your group that post here are actually at the controls of a commercial aircraft.

 

[Kellerguy]

I suppose APA figures Doug will let them fly all that new iron on the way. I wonder if that is what he's thinking or moving the new growth the the leanest of his three operations?

 

[EastCheats]

Well there Mr Professor, to set the record straight for you, the above referenced took place SEVEN YEARS AGO. Back in early 2005 over 20 stations were outsourced, and all locations kept the employees working right up to their last day. As I stated, in some locations the company attempted and succeeded at keeping Mainline employees around for a few extra weeks to train the contract vendors. IMO, this was morally wrong to do, and none of those losing jobs cared for those who stayed. Keep in mind that this didn't result in a never ending pissing match between the fleet group. None of us thought that it was right, we voiced our opinions, and moved on. Many that made the decision to
"help out" later realized that they had done the wrong thing, and admitted it.
If you and a select others want to continue to make yourselves the laughing stock of these boards, and the industry, have at it. Like it or not, if this AA deal does happen, your battle will be lost in the shuffle.
After some of what you post, you can actually call someone else an Idiot? It scares me to think that some of your group that post here are actually at the controls of a commercial aircraft.

You are quite the moral authority aren't you? At least you would like to think you have the authority to decide how long someone stays on the job. It's their decision, not yours. You're right, you only had an opinion about their decision.

I work with a group who's airline retired it's operating certificate after the acquisition with an exceptional safety record. I have my own concerns about being represented in a merger by an association with a record of failure after failure. They have been unable to negotiate even a industry "standard" contract years later.

If I want to voice my concerns about my so-called representation going into a meger, a puke like you is not going to discourage me from doing it.

 

[wings396]

You are quite the moral authority aren't you? At least you would like to think you have the authority to decide how long someone stays on the job. It's their decision, not yours. You're right, you only had an opinion about their decision.

I work with a group who's airline retired it's operating certificate after the acquisition with an exceptional safety record. I have my own concerns about being represented in a merger by an association with a record of failure after failure. They have been unable to negotiate even a industry "standard" contract years later.

If I want to voice my concerns about my so-called representation going into a meger, a puke like you is not going to discourage me from doing it.

So a Union member training people who just got hired on by a Non Union contract vendor in order to replace Union jobs is OK in your book? WOW......Now who's the PUKE???
Don't some people have a 4 letter word that describes this type of action?
Live it up Pal, I can see that you have been on these boards for a long time, One full month already...Did it take you the last 7 years to come up with some of your material?

 

[Phoenix]

Cat fight

 

[Kellerguy]

Looks like the unions will announce their backing tomorrow.

FWST Blog update