US airways puts in a bid for Delta!

[FA Mikey]

I thought I read some where NWA was already using 757s NRT and inter Asia.

 

[Skymess]

No, AA desperately wants the Asian route authorities and the NRT hub. Then, it will tweak and downsize the NRT hub over the next few years, claiming that the changes are needed to improve profitability. Next, it will downsize all intra-Asia flights to 757's, claiming that the flights are unprofitable. Finally, the NRT hub will turn into a "focus" city with only a handful of flight per day!

But, seriously, AA DOES want the Asian routes!

Let's just hope this isn't a big ruse by other airlines to make us lose a few billion like it was last time. If we fall for it again the other airlines will sh*t themselves from laughing so hard.

I'm talking about how last time US and UAL said they were going to merge and Carty acted like buying TWA was some sort of coup. Then their merger fell apart and we were left holding the bag of sh*t, which we're still holding.

Buying NWA won't get us Asia routes it will run us out of f'ing business and assure that we would definitely make more money working as bus boys/girls, at the local mall, or the car wash.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Let's just hope this isn't a big ruse by other airlines to make us lose a few billion like it was last time. If we fall for it again the other airlines will sh*t themselves from laughing so hard.

I'm talking about how last time US and UAL said they were going to merge and Carty acted like buying TWA was some sort of coup. Then their merger fell apart and we were left holding the bag of sh*t, which we're still holding.

Buying NWA won't get us Asia routes it will run us out of f'ing business and assure that we would definitely make more money working as bus boys/girls, at the local mall, or the car wash.

Exactly - we are just waiting to se if it works again, you guys will be paying for twa for a few more years - but put some NWA in the mix, and we will sh*t ourselves for you guys falling for it twice... You are already hurting due to those poor little pensions and if this happens fuggettt about it,,, get ready for the hard push for NWA... It is in the crystal ball...

 

[MCI transplant]

Let's just hope this isn't a big ruse by other airlines to make us lose a few billion like it was last time. If we fall for it again the other airlines will sh*t themselves from laughing so hard.

I'm talking about how last time US and UAL said they were going to merge and Carty acted like buying TWA was some sort of coup. Then their merger fell apart and we were left holding the bag of sh*t, which we're still holding.

Buying NWA won't get us Asia routes it will run us out of f'ing business and assure that we would definitely make more money working as bus boys/girls, at the local mall, or the car wash.

<_< ----- AH!!! Skymess! Now you've done it! You've hurt my feelings! You have! You have!-------- :bleh: But I do agree that buying Northworst would be a bad idea!

 

[eolesen]

I thought I read some where NWA was already using 757s NRT and inter Asia.

Yes, NWA has either 757s or A320s domiciled at NRT for intra-Asia flying that can't justify a widebody.

According to the guys in planning that I spoke to about this in the past, AA wants NWA's route authorities, but could care less about NRT. With planes like the 777 and 787, stopping in NRT isn't as nearly important as it was ten years ago.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< --- I think we should also point out that there has been a shift in economic dominance from Japan to China! What is the latest corperate "Buzz word?" Oh yea! "Para-dine shift?"---- 😛

 

[FWAAA]

Let's just hope this isn't a big ruse by other airlines to make us lose a few billion like it was last time. If we fall for it again the other airlines will sh*t themselves from laughing so hard.

I'm talking about how last time US and UAL said they were going to merge and Carty acted like buying TWA was some sort of coup. Then their merger fell apart and we were left holding the bag of sh*t, which we're still holding.

Buying NWA won't get us Asia routes it will run us out of f'ing business and assure that we would definitely make more money working as bus boys/girls, at the local mall, or the car wash.

Buying TWA had very little to do with AA losing several billion dollars between 2001 and 2005. You may have noticed that each and every legacy airline lost several billion in the same period. If you blame the TWA purchase for AA's losses (which makes absolutely no sense), then what explains the massive losses at UAL and DL and NW and CO and US over the same timeframe?

Here's an equally ridiculous assertion (which might help you see how silly your assertion is): All the other legacies except for AA and CO filed for Ch 11 in the last five years - and CO filed twice before which made their employess the lowest paid among the majors. So it's obvious that buying TWA helped keep AA out of bankrupty, right? See how silly that sounds? Not half as stupid as your claim that buying TWA caused AA's recent woes.

According to the guys in planning that I spoke to about this in the past, AA wants NWA's route authorities, but could care less about NRT. With planes like the 777 and 787, stopping in NRT isn't as nearly important as it was ten years ago.

I've been posting the same thing now for a couple of years. In the old days, a Tokyo hub was essential to serve Asia; now, with long-range smaller airplane here and more on the horizon, stopping in Tokyo can't be as important as it used to be.

Still, the fact that NW flies all of its China passenger flights as one-stops thru NRT instead of nonstops from MSP or DTW might help prove that there is still some value to the fifth freedom rights. On the other hand, they didn't keep NW (or UAL, for that matter) out of bankruptcy, either. UAL, of course, flies its China flights as nonstops from ORD and SFO, a completely different strategy from NW.

 

[777 fixer]

Exactly - we are just waiting to se if it works again, you guys will be paying for twa for a few more years - but put some NWA in the mix, and we will sh*t ourselves for you guys falling for it twice... You are already hurting due to those poor little pensions and if this happens fuggettt about it,,, get ready for the hard push for NWA... It is in the crystal ball...

Boy, it really must bother you that our pensions are still intact. Well at least for now they are. Maybe you will get your wish and they will go away someday as well. The Germans have a word for that.

 

[JFK777]

AA & NW would make a great pair, so would CAL and NW. IF CAL purchased NW it would eliminate that pesky thing about NW needing to approve a Cal buyout by another airline. Delta & UA would be better then US/Delta.

AA is big enough it doesn't need to merge, it could be a shuttle or other assets from merging airlines. The only missing hole at AA is Asia but a deal for the sake of Asia isn't a great idea to deal with all NW's problems. AA has done a reasonable job with New Dehli and Shanghai along with LAX and JFK to Tokyo(its the only US airline on the route) to develop it Pacific routes. DFW and ORD are also important to Japan. AA should develop LAX with more Asian service.

 

[Skymess]

Buying TWA had very little to do with AA losing several billion dollars between 2001 and 2005. You may have noticed that each and every legacy airline lost several billion in the same period. If you blame the TWA purchase for AA's losses (which makes absolutely no sense), then what explains the massive losses at UAL and DL and NW and CO and US over the same timeframe?

Here's an equally ridiculous assertion (which might help you see how silly your assertion is): All the other legacies except for AA and CO filed for Ch 11 in the last five years - and CO filed twice before which made their employess the lowest paid among the majors. So it's obvious that buying TWA helped keep AA out of bankrupty, right? See how silly that sounds? Not half as stupid as your claim that buying TWA caused AA's recent woes.
I've been posting the same thing now for a couple of years. In the old days, a Tokyo hub was essential to serve Asia; now, with long-range smaller airplane here and more on the horizon, stopping in Tokyo can't be as important as it used to be.

I don't find it to be a silly assertion that TWA was the beginning of our massive troubles. 9/11, and AA management's failure to make cuts quickly in response to the catastrophe and fallout, were major causes of massive loss of money.

The assertion that TWA was the primary, or initial, cause of the loss of billions of AA dollars was accurate, in my estimation. Had we not gone through with the purchase we wouldn't have been in such a deep hole following the events of 9/11.

To say otherwise is "silly".

 

[jimntx]

I don't find it to be a silly assertion that TWA was the beginning of our massive troubles. 9/11, and AA management's failure to make cuts quickly in response to the catastrophe and fallout, were major causes of massive loss of money.

The assertion that TWA was the primary, or initial, cause of the loss of billions of AA dollars was accurate, in my estimation. Had we not gone through with the purchase we wouldn't have been in such a deep hole following the events of 9/11.

To say otherwise is "silly".

I take it that math is not your strong suit. We paid $742 million in cash for TWA from $5.5 billion in cash we had on hand at . Since then we have gotten rid of most of TW's a/c, and all of their employees; so, there's certainly no drag on the payroll today or lease payments to deal with.

Today, we owe something in the neighborhood of $20 billion (in reality most of it piled up in the high-flying days of the 90's), and we are back to having $5.5 billion in cash on hand. And, by the way, the (as you so eloquently put it) bag of sh*t we were left holding is one of AA's most profitable hubs--even with the gimmick that all the losses for the Love Field flying are charged to the STL hub.

As Ricky Ricardo might say, "Splain to me how the TW purchase is responsible for the "loss of billions."

Or, is this just another case of "Your mind is made up and you do not wish to be confused with facts."

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Well, not quit "all the employees" are gone! But you do have a point! If it wasn't for the fact that aa had all those exTWA employees to lay off when times got bad, skymess and all his friends may have been put out on the street instead of the exTWAers! ---- So you could say, the exTWAers took the hit for them!!! In reality, what aa bought them (the nAAtives)was "cushion"! Personally I'd say that was more than a good deal! At least for the nAAtives, not necessarily for the exTWAers that were promised a "fair" integration!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Since then we have gotten rid of most of TW's a/c, and all of their employees;

Hmmm.......Anyone got any numbers?

 

[aafsc]

<_< ----- Well, not quit "all the employees" are gone! But you do have a point! If it wasn't for the fact that aa had all those exTWA employees to lay off when times got bad, skymess and all his friends may have been put out on the street instead of the exTWAers! ---- So you could say, the exTWAers took the hit for them!!! In reality, what aa bought them (the nAAtives)was "cushion"! Personally I'd say that was more than a good deal! At least for the nAAtives, not necessarily for the exTWAers that were promised a "fair" integration!

The ex-twaers didn't take a hit for anybody; they are just incensed because we did not become their "cushion". If Carty would have just let twa die completely, then that would have been a capacity reduction that would have benefitted AA and the industry as a whole. Some AA people would probably have been laid off but only for a short time because all the "nAAtive" hubs are back to where they were (or larger) before 9/11. Only STL is a fraction of what it was. The fact is that AA paid $742 million in cash, assumed about $3.5 billion in twa liabilities and all they have to show for it is some slots in the Northeast and a STL "hub" with 55-60 flights a day; an amount which AA could have easily done with it's own metal. Not only that but the cost of bringing the twaers on AA's payroll, the cost converting the twa aircraft to AA's certificate, the painting of the aircraft, and the training of the twaers cost even more. Whats more, when AA laid off the twaers they got paid unused vacation and severence using their full twa seniority at AA's far superior payrates (I know, I know some ex-twa F/As did not get severance). Right now there are about 40 ex-twa aircraft sitting in the desert that AA is still making lease payments on. Additionally, when AA took that $1.3 billion dollar write down on the impairment of it's "goodwill" asset, twa was responsible for $1.1 billion if it. twa did cost AA tremendously. If Carty would just have let twa die completely, he then could have taken the assets he wanted without the twa employees and retirees. Had he done this, AA's balance sheet would have been about $4.5 billion healthier and we would not have had to deal with the twaers' constant bitching and whining and their endless lawsuits.

 

[Skymess]

I take it that math is not your strong suit. We paid $742 million in cash for TWA from $5.5 billion in cash we had on hand at . Since then we have gotten rid of most of TW's a/c, and all of their employees; so, there's certainly no drag on the payroll today or lease payments to deal with.

Today, we owe something in the neighborhood of $20 billion (in reality most of it piled up in the high-flying days of the 90's), and we are back to having $5.5 billion in cash on hand. And, by the way, the (as you so eloquently put it) bag of sh*t we were left holding is one of AA's most profitable hubs--even with the gimmick that all the losses for the Love Field flying are charged to the STL hub.

As Ricky Ricardo might say, "Splain to me how the TW purchase is responsible for the "loss of billions."

Or, is this just another case of "Your mind is made up and you do not wish to be confused with facts."

Maybe you need to go back to school and learn how to read AND do math.

Since you really believe you know it all, I won't waste my time trying to disabuse you of that notion.