Us Airways Union Says Labor Deal Is Near

[cavalier]

I don't think you can count on anything except capitulation. I thought there were several things for which the pilots would have said "ENOUGH". But Alas.

When I saw a controlling majority acquiesce and idly watch the DB get stolen from men who have already invested 30+ years of sweat and tears... There is no honor.

If there is no honor, there is no line that they will defend. The top 51% have proven time and again that their vote is for sale, until of course they are themselves in danger of furlough.

The pilots are reactionary and manipulated by fear. Their shortsightedness has prevented them from seeing that the Boogieman was peddling expensive, empty promises of protection from the Reaper.

Strange thing is, they will wake up to find that they themselves are the Reaper, at the behest of the Boogieman.
Alas Alak

[post="171390"][/post]​

WOW what a post, and what a truth.

I bet our country wasn't built with that kind of cowardly mindset of me me me me, and then OH--- S*H*I*T

 

[vc10]

There are no jobs at any other major airlines. Even if there were, US Airways pilots would have to start at the bottom. Therefore, the best alternative for a US Airways pilot is being a lower-paid US Airways pilot. If you're a 50-year old US Airways pilot, what choice do you really have? Put yourself out of work, work the FE station of a 727-freighter for the next 10 years and then work at BK until you die? For what? The sanctity of the profession? Is "the sanctity of the profession" going to cover your retirement? Don't think so...

HOW CAN ANY UNION(ALPA in this case) THAT NEGOTIATES WITH THIS MANAGEMENT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY???HOW CAN ACCOMMODATING THIS MANAGEMENT BE IN THE BEST INTEREST FOR ALL PILOTS IN THE INDUSTRY??

These are the QUESTIONS each PILOT should think about before VOTING!!!!

[post="171077"][/post]​

 

[careerfurloughee]

There are no jobs at any other major airlines. Even if there were, US Airways pilots would have to start at the bottom. Therefore, the best alternative for a US Airways pilot is being a lower-paid US Airways pilot. If you're a 50-year old US Airways pilot, what choice do you really have? Put yourself out of work, work the FE station of a 727-freighter for the next 10 years and then work at BK until you die? For what? The sanctity of the profession? Is "the sanctity of the profession" going to cover your retirement? Don't think so...

[post="171395"][/post]​

You are suffering from low self esteem.

 

[cavalier]

There are no jobs at any other major airlines. Even if there were, US Airways pilots would have to start at the bottom. Therefore, the best alternative for a US Airways pilot is being a lower-paid US Airways pilot. If you're a 50-year old US Airways pilot, what choice do you really have? Put yourself out of work, work the FE station of a 727-freighter for the next 10 years and then work at BK until you die? For what? The sanctity of the profession? Is "the sanctity of the profession" going to cover your retirement? Don't think so...

[post="171395"][/post]​

I really don't know what the pilots make, that is not in my reality, don't have a clue. I will say reading on here someone saying pilots are going down to $110 grand a year would surly keep me from the poor farm and be able to retire early. Then of course I don't live like I make that kind of cash...regardless give me that money and I'll show you how to retire early!!

 

[Phoenix]

There are no jobs at any other major airlines. Even if there were, US Airways pilots would have to start at the bottom. Therefore, the best alternative for a US Airways pilot is being a lower-paid US Airways pilot. If you're a 50-year old US Airways pilot, what choice do you really have? Put yourself out of work, work the FE station of a 727-freighter for the next 10 years and then work at BK until you die? For what? The sanctity of the profession? Is "the sanctity of the profession" going to cover your retirement? Don't think so...

[post="171395"][/post]​

Your Myopia is symptomatic.

 

[Phoenix]

There are no jobs at any other major airlines. Even if there were, US Airways pilots would have to start at the bottom. Therefore, the best alternative for a US Airways pilot is being a lower-paid US Airways pilot. If you're a 50-year old US Airways pilot, what choice do you really have? Put yourself out of work, work the FE station of a 727-freighter for the next 10 years and then work at BK until you die? For what? The sanctity of the profession? Is "the sanctity of the profession" going to cover your retirement? Don't think so...

[post="171395"][/post]​

Are there really any 50 yearold pilots left at USAIR?!

I would venture to say that if there are any, they will not survive the next round of Furloughs, unless you consider MDA as "surviving".

 

[mwereplanes]

There are no jobs at any other major airlines. Even if there were, US Airways pilots would have to start at the bottom. Therefore, the best alternative for a US Airways pilot is being a lower-paid US Airways pilot. If you're a 50-year old US Airways pilot, what choice do you really have? Put yourself out of work, work the FE station of a 727-freighter for the next 10 years and then work at BK until you die? For what? The sanctity of the profession? Is "the sanctity of the profession" going to cover your retirement? Don't think so...

[post="171395"][/post]​

This is the mindset of which I speak. Notice the lack of thought and the singular focus on FLYING? For some reason guys like this cannot contemplate a life outside of flying. And that thought process is the problem.

I do not understand the total capitulation of accepting "the best alternative" as being a lower paid pilot. This fellow has no clue what he is capable of outside of the industry. And that is what the land grab types count on and why they get away with counterproposals such as the one we received. 320 is in the same group as this fellow. He too has a myopic vision of what he is capable of and an unreasonable fear of the unknown. And he has stated before about foreign flying opportunities. Singular focus = unreasonable fear = save my job no matter what the cost.

I know many 50+ year old guys who have become wildly successful in businesses other than ones they started in. All it takes is a strong work ethic and some guts. Guts and work ethic apparently lacking in this fellow and the 320 gang of giveaway artists.

mr

 

[mwereplanes]

mwereplanes,

Allow me to stick my nose in here for just a minute. Some pilots and many other professionals are defined by what they do.

In other words folks like A320 don't work as pilots, they ARE pilots. It's not what they do it's who they are. Musicians are often that way. Same for Law Enforcement and a host of other jobs with varying skill sets.

These type of pilots CAN'T fathom a life that doesn't involve flying.

If you read my other post about my musician friend the late Don Stover. Don played to within weeks of his death, why? to pay for his cancer treatments? NO, because no other thing he could do kept his spirit alive. The last time he played for us they had to carry this great pioneer of Bluegrass Music on and off the stage. He was grinning like a school boy instead of a near 70 year old man coming to terms with the finite nature of life. Music was his mistress and he never turned her down. Many pilots are the same way. Don't be so hard on them. I do understand your points and I think they are good ones. But these folks want to fly as much as Don loved that Banjo and being on stage. Remember they are decent folk just like you.

Via Con Dios my friend.

[post="171522"][/post]​

You know what? You are absolutely correct. I never really thought about it that way since I do not think about flying that way. Don't get me wrong, I love the flying part and the job but that is just what I do. Not who I am. Your point is well taken.

I does not, however, mitigate the fact that the land grabbers will play them just like your buddies banjo. That is a true shame. I do not think it is healthy or wise to be defined by what you do. That creates serious problems other than just a unreasonable fear of losing your job. Or your "Being". I know many of the guys I disagree with are otherwise good people. I just have a very hard time tolerating the people who allow management types to trample all over them while not fighting back. But you make a very good point.

mr

 

[careerfurloughee]

mwereplanes,

Allow me to stick my nose in here for just a minute. Some pilots and many other professionals are defined by what they do.

In other words folks like A320 don't work as pilots, they ARE pilots. It's not what they do it's who they are. Musicians are often that way. Same for Law Enforcement and a host of other jobs with varying skill sets.

These type of pilots CAN'T fathom a life that doesn't involve flying.

If you read my other post about my musician friend the late Don Stover. Don played to within weeks of his death, why? to pay for his cancer treatments? NO, because no other thing he could do kept his spirit alive. The last time he played for us they had to carry this great pioneer of Bluegrass Music on and off the stage. He was grinning like a school boy instead of a near 70 year old man coming to terms with the finite nature of life. Music was his mistress and he never turned her down. Many pilots are the same way. Don't be so hard on them. I do understand your points and I think they are good ones. But these folks want to fly as much as Don loved that Banjo and being on stage. Remember they are decent folk just like you.

Via Con Dios my friend.

[post="171522"][/post]​

Bob,

I can't tell tou how many times I have cringed when I heard a pilot say "I love flying so much I would do it for free" or "I can't believe we get paid to do this". I love to fly as well but not at the expense of my family or the profession.

Time to grow up, develop a spine and see this for what it is ....... subsidizing mismanagement.

 

[cavalier]

You know what? You are absolutely correct. I never really thought about it that way since I do not think about flying that way. Don't get me wrong, I love the flying part and the job but that is just what I do. Not who I am. Your point is well taken.

I does not, however, mitigate the fact that the land grabbers will play them just like your buddies banjo. That is a true shame. I do not think it is healthy or wise to be defined by what you do. That creates serious problems other than just a unreasonable fear of losing your job. Or your "Being". I know many of the guys I disagree with are otherwise good people. I just have a very hard time tolerating the people who allow management types to trample all over them while not fighting back. But you make a very good point.

mr

[post="171532"][/post]​

Take this to an even higher level where famous people known world wide are manipulated by people who are supposed to be their advisers but really have their own secret motives and agendas which results in full blown scandals of hellish proportions. I don't care who you are, if you don't truly know yourself then you are bait for the ones that do.

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

I really don't know what the pilots make, that is not in my reality, don't have a clue. I will say reading on here someone saying pilots are going down to $110 grand a year would surly keep me from the poor farm and be able to retire early. Then of course I don't live like I make that kind of cash...regardless give me that money and I'll show you how to retire early!!

[post="171399"][/post]​

I think everyone is missing a major point here. Let me state for the record, I am NOT defending the pilots. BUT........ This class envy garbage being posted here by some is making me roll on the floor with laughter!!!! Some of you on here dont have a CLUE!!!!!!! Pilots have ALWAYS and WILL CONTINUE to be the HIGHEST paid employees in the airline industry......period!!!!!! All this crap about "sticking together", "selling the other groups out"...blah, blah, blah!!!!!!!!!!! This is not the latter part of the 19th century when workers were treated like dogs!!! This is 2004. Unfortunately, unions DO NOT have the power they once wielded. Put yourself in their place. Those of us in the $40,000-$55,000 range surely do not want to lose any more. We live knowing we make xyz!! Pilots make what they do, and they live according to what they make!! They don't want to lose what they have any more than we do!!!!!!!!! To say they can "afford to give" is disingenuous at best!!!! I thought one of the cornerstones of unionism is that you receive what was NEGOTIATED!!!!!!!!!! But then again, being in a union environment for the past 17+ years, I have also noticed that CLASS ENVY is VERY prevelant. Just an interesting observation on my part. GOOD DAY!!!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

I have a different opinion of the recent discussion in this thread.

Even with the proposed cuts to an LCC level, the pay and benefits for an America West or US Airways mainline pilot (who blocks out) will still be in the top 3% of U.S. income earners. Furthermore, some pilots are not trained to do something else or they do not want to do anything but fly, which is o.k.

In my case I have other options, just like I did in the military when I flew at the Naval Air Test Center and held a Program Manager position or took an Operations Officer job versus flying position before I retired.

There are many pilots who are trained to do other occupations such as stock brokers, lawyers, CPA's, or even Doctor's.

Separately, if the upcoming cuts are unaccepable I believe it's better to vote for a deal then move on versus beonmg left with virtually nothing. Why? I believe it's in the best interest of an employee to have a job while looking for a job.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[mrfish3726]

With Republican President George W. Bush behind his Democratic challenger John Kerry in the polls, Mr. Millar suspects the president may need to get involved to improve his standing with Pennsylvania voters.

"Pennsylvania is a huge swing state," he said. "In my opinion, in the short term, I just can't imagine the Bush administration letting this airline go down."


Is this guy HIGH? Hell the governement is going to be after USAIR if they don't pay on those covenants. I don't understand why anyone (employees or outside interests) think it is up to the government to save a badly managed corporation. The government (ATSB) has already stepped up to the plate for US, why do you think they should do it again. The governments position right now is that the survival of USAIR or UniTED is not going to really hamper the recovery of the airline industry. With all the excess capacity and airport congestion they will probably welcome the losses.

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

I have a different opinion of the recent discussion in this thread.

Even with the proposed cuts to an LCC level, the pay and benefits for an America West or US Airways mainline pilot (who blocks out) will still be in the top 3% of U.S. income earners. Furthermore, some pilots are not trained to do something else or they do not want to do anything but fly, which is o.k.

In my case I have other options, just like I did in the military when I flew at the Naval Air Test Center and held a Program Manager position or took an Operations Officer job versus flying position before I retired.

There are many pilots who are trained to do other occupations such as stock brokers, lawyers, CPA's, or even Doctor's.

Separately, if the upcoming cuts are unaccepable I believe it's better to vote for a deal then move on versus beonmg left with virtually nothing. Why? I believe it's in the best interest of an employee to have a job while looking for a job.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="171610"][/post]​

Once again, I must side with 320.... Many posters to these boards simply do not have a clue :blink: Will I take flack for this statement?? Yes!!!! You know what will be posted...... The typical blah.. blah..blah, from the likes of 700, cav, and PITBULL@#@T!!!!!!!! When are people to these threads going to understand that this is NOT US versus the PILOTs??? 320 is simply stating the obvious......those that choose to remain, you have but one choice!! If you dont have a secondary plan,DO NOT COMPLAIN!!!! If you want to be employed by U, your choice is clear!! GOOD DAY!!!!

 

[delldude]

With Republican President George W. Bush behind his Democratic challenger John Kerry in the polls, Mr. Millar suspects the president may need to get involved to improve his standing with Pennsylvania voters.

"Pennsylvania is a huge swing state," he said. "In my opinion, in the short term, I just can't imagine the Bush administration letting this airline go down."

yo...dude...some guy i know said that they wouldn't deny UAL on their ATSB loan as its an election year,well guess what.