US uses hired guns?

[Garfield1966]

I am not sure I like the idea of the US using hired guns to protect US diplomats .. etc abroad. No, I take that back. I know I do not like it.

Since this Black Water screw up in Iraq I have been looking into this a little. I find it quite disconcerting that the US is paying tons of money to companies for them to guard US interests. Is that not what the US military is for? If you are a government employee the you should be guarded by US military. If we do not have enough people (I now we do not) then they need to increase the volunteer armed forces or institute a draft. According to some of the articles I have read, some of the security personal make $500-$600 a day. Last time I checked, GI Joe does not earn that much in the service of his/her country.

If a private corporation wants to hire someone to protect their CEO, kudos for them. They can hire who ever the hell they want. I do not believe that the US should be in the business of using hired guns with little or no accountability.

Then there is the fact that Erik Prince is a major republican contributor who has received no-bid contracts in Iraq.

No one seems to know how many security people there are in Iraq, estimates range anywhere from 20,000 to over 100,000.

 

[delldude]

Gar,for the most part they're all ex spec-ops dudes......who ya think trained them?

Making beau coup more than Uncle Sam is willing to shell out for sure.

 

[Garfield1966]

Dell,

That is not the point. For me the issues are:

1. Why pay that kind of money for something that the US military should be doing in the first place.

2. Why are there not enough military personal to carry out the required duties.

3. Since we are using them, why are they not held to them same standards that the US armed fores are held to and not under the control of the armed forces?

I know where they come from and why they are there. I just do not think it is right for the US to be hiring mercenaries to do they work that the US military for what ever reason is unable to do. Part of me believes it is to allow a certain amount of deniability. Since they are not under government control and seem to be accountable to no one, they can do things that the US government should not/cannot do. hey can violate international law with out consequence.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Dell,

That is not the point. For me the issues are:

1. Why pay that kind of money for something that the US military should be doing in the first place.

2. Why are there not enough military personal to carry out the required duties.

3. Since we are using them, why are they not held to them same standards that the US armed fores are held to and not under the control of the armed forces?

I know where they come from and why they are there. I just do not think it is right for the US to be hiring mercenaries to do they work that the US military for what ever reason is unable to do. Part of me believes it is to allow a certain amount of deniability. Since they are not under government control and seem to be accountable to no one, they can do things that the US government should not/cannot do. hey can violate international law with out consequence.

Garf,

Using a ‘single’ word to explain a complicated situation:

OUTSOURCING

Our new way of life.

When you hire killers to kill, then don't complain when someone gets killed.
Just be thankful that they were not hired to kill us as we have disenfranchised our solders to become mercenaries. Kill a the 'enemy' that is in the contract. IrrRegardless 😛 of the nationality or 'home nation' affiliation.

Globalization, Don't you just love it?

B) UT

 

[local 12 proud]

Mercenaries have been used since the advent of warfare, The most notable one that comes to mind is the French Foreign Legion. It is about defeating an enemy and not meant to be nice and tidy as some would suggest.

 

[Garfield1966]

Again. Not the point I am addressing. Why are we paying for something our military should be doing. We are spending obscene amounts of money on these mercenaries to hide a down sized military that is incapable of performing the duties that it would normally be asked to handle. That along with the fact that they are not accountable to anyone.

As for out sourcing, one usually out sources to get something done cheaper. Why are we paying more?

 

[UAL_TECH]

Again. Not the point I am addressing. Why are we paying for something our military should be doing. We are spending obscene amounts of money on these mercenaries to hide a down sized military that is incapable of performing the duties that it would normally be asked to handle. That along with the fact that they are not accountable to anyone.

As for out sourcing, one usually out sources to get something done cheaper. Why are we paying more?

Not 'all' (very few actually) operatives are supporting US military actions.
Blackwater, is also providing protection to 'any' party that will pay the fee.

As for out sourcing, one usually out sources to get something done cheaper. Why are we paying more?

JMHO, We are paying more now to not have a draft.
Pick One!

B) UT

 

[local 12 proud]

We are spending obscene amounts of money on these mercenaries to hide a down sized military that is incapable of performing the duties that it would normally be asked to handle. That along with the fact that they are not accountable to anyone.

Well (IF) as you say our military is incapable of performing its duties, then it seems to me that would be a good reason to 'fight fire with fire'. 😉

 

[Garfield1966]

Not 'all' (very few actually) operatives are supporting US military actions.
Blackwater, is also providing protection to 'any' party that will pay the fee.
JMHO, We are paying more now to not have a draft
Pick One!

B) UT

Blackwater has collected over $320 million dollars from the US government.

Our military is is being abused in Iraq. Tours are extended, breaks between tours are shortened, we cannot maintain the equipment that we have and W wants to tangle with Iran now. The guns for hire and masking incompetency and inadequacies.

No local, I think its a good reason to call the competency f our government in to question and hold them accountable. Why has no one asked how our military was sent into an arena that they are not capable and designed to handle? We do not have an occupation force. We have a fighting force. Two very different animals.

 

[local 12 proud]

Ok Gar, lets abandon Iraq, Impeach Bush and let the middle east implode causing a world war!

Will that suffice?

 

[UAL_TECH]

The ‘VOTERS’ don’t care. Halliburton was awarded a single source contract and then moved to Dubai with nary a whimper from the ‘masses’.

Blackwater is now a major (if not single source) provider of ‘Protection Services’ in the ME.

If we can hire these knuckleheads to die for a few bucks, then ‘Caveat Emptor’.

Cry Me a River……..

B) UT

 

[Garfield1966]

Full story


It is doubtful that foreign security contractors could be prosecuted under Iraqi law. A directive issued by U.S. occupation authorities in 2004 granted contractors, U.S. troops and many other foreign officials immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.

Security contractors are also not subject to U.S. military law under which U.S. troopers face prosecution for killing or abusing Iraqis.


I'd settle for making them accountable for their actions Then we can discuss why they are being used in the first place.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Why do "we" do the things "we" do Garfield ?

I'ts very SIMPLE.
You/Me/12/Dell etc. , were born into a nation of HYPOCRACY ! Oh sure, "we" do things "above board" half the time, but are not the least bit shy, of "bending the rules"(RULES THAT "WE" CREATED), when it suits are purpose, and it is a large part, as to why the US is ridiculed by even our closest allies, from time to time. In other words..................."we're' HYPOCRITS !!!!

Right from the start, the country was founded/settled using a FALSE DOCTRINE...MANIFEST DESTINY !!

Another of my favorite US hypocracies, the famous NYC Gambino family(Mafia) leader..John Gotti, was finally taken down by Rudy Guliani.."Making a DEAL" with a guy who confessed to .."19"(THATS RIGHT)..."19" FUUKING MURDERS(Sammy the Bull Gravano)

When "we" NEED Info from some "perp", and he won't talk, "we"(USA) ships him out to(perhaps) Turkey to get his fingernails "slowly removed".

If my country of Birth, was not so PIOUS(SP?)/Hypocritical, then perhaps I'd have more respect for it.
So things like BLACKWATER should NOT surprise you.

 

[local 12 proud]

Full story
It is doubtful that foreign security contractors could be prosecuted under Iraqi law. A directive issued by U.S. occupation authorities in 2004 granted contractors, U.S. troops and many other foreign officials immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.

Security contractors are also not subject to U.S. military law under which U.S. troopers face prosecution for killing or abusing Iraqis.
I'd settle for making them accountable for their actions Then we can discuss why they are being used in the first place.

I Know, lets ask the Insurgents if they would be interested in playing patty cake, rock-scissors-paper, perhaps Pick-up-sticks to settle this once and for all!!!!!!!!

 

[Garfield1966]

The US is in Iraq supposedly to free them from a dictator who was not bound by the rule of law and to bring democracy to their nation. According the the investigators, there is a video taken from the police station at the square where the incident happened that shows Blackwater firing at civilians with out provocation. If the allegations prove to be correct, 11 Iraqi civilian were murdered by company personal hired by the US government. If we allow Blackwater to get away without being held responsible for their actions, why would/should the Iraqi people (or any other nation for that mater) trust us when we say democracy is better than their form of government. 11 people lost their life and it would appear that no one and nothing is responsible for it.

Living in the US and living under the rule of law means that we have certain standards to maintain. If someone or something (a comapany) commits a crime, they must pay the price. This has nothing to do with the actions of Al-Queda or the insurgents or anyone else. Their lack of respect for the rule of law and human life cannot and should not be used as a justification for us to become like them. We are after all better then that, or so I thought.