Vote No Video from Presidents

[Overspeed]

You and James C Little have the same stats, and I am in agreement that abborgation will take place or at least that the chance is slim that Judge Lane will not grant the 1113 motion. But that must be the end of your thinking it through, what is that less than 30 days from today? That is the extent of your thinkng? What about the next 6 YEARS?

Now show me the statistics on how many of those agreements after the motion was granted were improved via negotiations that followed? Compared with some stats that show how many got worse than abrogation as negotations resumed.

My point is, you are looking only at the next 30 days, Even though Negotiations will indeed begin again.

Unless we vote YES, then we stand no chance to improve these conditions for 6 long years.

Again, you have the statisitcs that show numbers on motions granted, now show me that none of those contracts improved after abrogation in the negotiations that folllowed the granted motion and that those union members suffered 6 long years of the worst concessions ever in the industry.

Stop being so short sighted and look at the length of this DOG CRAP!

For the record, I am betting we can get a better deal in negotiations after aborgation, not in court. Stop placing words in my mouth.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. So you agree that abrogation will take place so that means that 4,300 jobs and maybe many more will be gone by the time the remaining ~5,000 get a pay raise in what? Two? Three years? That's a big win there! I'm not shortsighted in fact quite the opposite. Saying "we will get a big raise" is great when you are part of the "we". The others whose work is getting outsourced well I guess they're on their own in the future you want. Nice one percent-type mentality.

 

[TWU informer]

I'm not putting words in your mouth. So you agree that abrogation will take place so that means that 4,300 jobs and maybe many more will be gone by the time the remaining ~5,000 get a pay raise in what? Two? Three years? That's a big win there! I'm not shortsighted in fact quite the opposite. Saying "we will get a big raise" is great when you are part of the "we". The others whose work is getting outsourced well I guess they're on their own in the future you want. Nice one percent-type mentality.

In typical TWU fashion, you fail to answer a single one of the legitimate questions I asked.
Instead you answer with questions and more fear.
You are hopeless and it is people like you that are leading this Union and destroying a once proud profession.
I consider you incapable of debating the issues in an intelligent manner.
And, hopefully the other readers here also see that too.

your YES vote would lead to more job loss than the 2003 Concessions for jobs experiment lost and you are obviously not capable of understanding that to be fact.

There is a quote that comes to mind.

You cannot argue with or fix stupid.

Go ahead, and cast you YES vote, I know that I at least cancel you out.

And for the record, it is not my mentality that is the problem here. It is the failure in the TWU/AFL-CIO to change the Bankruptcy Laws. you even admit that there is evidence of 33 instances of workers being shafted by this law, along with the deregulation to the industry. And what has the TWU or the AFL-CIO done to correct these issues? You got it......NOTHING! Instead you blame a dues paying member that is tired of funding complete and utter FAILURE~

 

[Overspeed]

I wanted to correct my earlier post regarding the notable differences. I said that with rejection of the cba "the pension would be terminated". That's incorrect. It would be frozen like the LBO. Therefore, there are no notable differences between the term sheet and LBO. Vote NO!

I'm looking at the term sheet comparisons and there is a lot of notable differences.

http://www.RestructuringAMR.com/documents/TWUMRSide-by-Side-04_30_12FINAL.pdf

 

[odie01]

I understand. As of this morning Local 514 and some others, are not indicating a position.

The most important vote of our careers, and local 514 has no position. TWU leadership at it's best !!!

 

[Overspeed]

And for the record, it is not my mentality that is the problem here. It is the failure in the TWU/AFL-CIO to change the Bankruptcy Laws. you even admit that there is evidence of 33 instances of workers being shafted by this law, along with the deregulation to the industry. And what has the TWU or the AFL-CIO done to correct these issues? You got it......NOTHING! Instead you blame a dues paying member that is tired of funding complete and utter FAILURE~

My mentality is fine. Yours however has a proven track record of effectiveness.

"The role of the bankruptcy court as little more than an adjunct of corporate management was underscored by the decision of Judge Wedoff to impose a wage cut double the amount demanded by United. Wedoff also imposed concessions on United mechanics two years ago, after they rejected an earlier round of concessions. Afterwards, the mechanics voted to leave the International Association of Machinists and join the AMFA."

So under the IAM the UAL mechanics rejected concessions and voted to leave and join AMFA (an independent union) because they would get a better deal. Then the BK judge spanked them with a doubling up on the concessions the Company wanted. Nice plan of action.

So the mechanics dumped the IAM because they believed the promises that an independent union would solve all their problems. Just what you are advocating now with AMFA/AMP will solve our problems. I would say the facts don't back you up on that.

 

[TWU informer]

My mentality is fine. Yours however has a proven track record of effectiveness.

"The role of the bankruptcy court as little more than an adjunct of corporate management was underscored by the decision of Judge Wedoff to impose a wage cut double the amount demanded by United. Wedoff also imposed concessions on United mechanics two years ago, after they rejected an earlier round of concessions. Afterwards, the mechanics voted to leave the International Association of Machinists and join the AMFA."

So under the IAM the UAL mechanics rejected concessions and voted to leave and join AMFA (an independent union) because they would get a better deal. Then the BK judge spanked them with a doubling up on the concessions the Company wanted. Nice plan of action.

So the mechanics dumped the IAM because they believed the promises that an independent union would solve all their problems. Just what you are advocating now with AMFA/AMP will solve our problems. I would say the facts don't back you up on that.

Actually you having to grasp that far out and off topic in a feeble attempt to make a point, confirms you are wrong, ignorant, and nothing more than a fear monger that refuses to answer simple questions.

 

[Overspeed]

Now show me the statistics on how many of those agreements after the motion was granted were improved via negotiations that followed? Compared with some stats that show how many got worse than abrogation as negotations resumed.

Unless we vote YES, then we stand no chance to improve these conditions for 6 long years.

Again, you have the statisitcs that show numbers on motions granted, now show me that none of those contracts improved after abrogation in the negotiations that folllowed the granted motion and that those union members suffered 6 long years of the worst concessions ever in the industry.

UAL after BK lost all their airframe overhaul jobs, close to 6,000 gone and have still not returned. They just negotiated a pay raise at the end of last year. That's six years since they emerged from BK.

NWA got rid of all of overhaul and all but two line stations during BK and the strike and they never recovered those jobs. That's way more than six years.

DL got rid of all airframe overhaul and now have about 1,700 unlicensed mechanics working in their ATL base which is only engines and components. They just got a pay raise a little over a year ago.

CO went through two BKs, pay cuts, and a two year pay freeze. Almost all overhaul was outsourced and they have in the last few years being working together per the IBT CBA language (LOM 17) and now have all 737NGs and more than half of their 757s back in-house doing airframe overhaul. They ratified a pay raise just over a year ago which was almost the same pay raise we were going to get in the July 2010 TA.

US lost a majority of their overhaul and took a huge pay cut which they are finally getting past our current pay rate after more than six years. The jobs are still gone.

They all suffered under six or more years of concessions after BK. So if we follow your advice history shows us we will be waiting six years for a better deal. Great.

 

[odie01]

American filed bankruptsy with over 4 bil. in cash and has increased that to almost 5 bil . This is a union busting bankrupsy! You should be pissed oversped. Did you watch both Vote no videos endorsed from all the locals, including DWH and AFW? Sorry man, this is not going to pass

 

[Rogallo]

Maybe Overspeed, HSS, & CIO will put together a "Vote Yes" video.....

 

[Hopeful]

For the record, I am betting we can get a better deal in negotiations after aborgation, not in court. Stop placing words in my mouth.

Not to sound cynical, Informer, but what makes any of us think the company will all of a suddendly change their demands?

 

[Buck]

American filed bankruptsy with over 4 bil. in cash and has increased that to almost 5 bil . This is a union busting bankrupsy! You should be pissed oversped. Did you watch both Vote no videos endorsed from all the locals, including DWH and AFW? Sorry man, this is not going to pass

No, the TWU ( any line station president who votes no is not part of the TWU) has a position which is yes and has always been yes, but if they took a public position they might earn the dues we pay them. If anything goes wrong, it is the membership and not the leadership who is at fault. What puzzles me is that many in the membership do not realize that the union is a pocket puppet.

 

[Overspeed]

Not to sound cynical, Informer, but what makes any of us think the company will all of a suddendly change their demands?

Exactly!

 

[Overspeed]

American filed bankruptsy with over 4 bil. in cash and has increased that to almost 5 bil . This is a union busting bankrupsy! You should be pissed oversped. Did you watch both Vote no videos endorsed from all the locals, including DWH and AFW? Sorry man, this is not going to pass

See you don't get it. The judge is trying to make sure the creditors get paid back, not stop union busting and by voting no you are helping AMR complete the process started by Carty. The AMR lawyers will get the motion through and will have vastly increased their ability to outsource at levels way beyond what is in the LBO.

BC performance bad, outsource it. Overnight maintenance in the line not doing so well, outsource it. Avionics shops not getting the work done, outsource it. Line M&E is capped under the LBO language, not under the Term Sheet.

Try getting that work back in negotiations after BK. Yeah, right.

 

[TWU informer]

See you don't get it. The judge is trying to make sure the creditors get paid back, not stop union busting and by voting no you are helping AMR complete the process started by Carty. The AMR lawyers will get the motion through and will have vastly increased their ability to outsource at levels way beyond what is in the LBO.

BC performance bad, outsource it. Overnight maintenance in the line not doing so well, outsource it. Avionics shops not getting the work done, outsource it. Line M&E is capped under the LBO language, not under the Term Sheet.

Try getting that work back in negotiations after BK. Yeah, right.

CRYSTAL BALL along with FEAR

You could qualify as a Full Blown Paranoind Schizophrenia Maniac
You and the TWU should have had that crystal ball out in 2010.

We have tried the concessions for jobs idea at least twice now, did not work. Like it is goin to work this time? Yeah Right!

 

[Hopeful]

American filed bankruptsy with over 4 bil. in cash and has increased that to almost 5 bil . This is a union busting bankrupsy! You should be pissed oversped. Did you watch both Vote no videos endorsed from all the locals, including DWH and AFW? Sorry man, this is not going to pass

Frustratingly enough, Odie, I don't think the "having 4-5 billion in cash" argument really matters anymore as far as the BK court and employees are concerned. As we all know, the judge's primary concern is getting the company out of BK. He is concerned about the business plan and the creditors. Employees are the end of the food chain.

We all share this frustration, but the BK courts are about the companies they are reorganizing.