Warren (raise my taxes) Buffet

[777 fixer]

Says you! Here's a rational argument for you

In order to work in this country for someone else you have to complete a IRS W-4 authorizing withholding (Confiscation)of a portion of YOUR wages. The penalty for not completing a W-4 is you don't work. That's nothing more than an extortion racket if you or I did it. But because it's the IRS/Government that makes it OK?

I don't think it does and I haven't since long before what happened to Ms Lojeski. A fact everyone here chooses to ignore. Her saga is public record and is an undeniable truth. Click off the Huffington Post and educate yourself as the subtle legal jockeying that undermines your personal Liberty under the twin guises of security & "helping" others. We now have RICO, Patriot Act, Fisa Courts, No Knock Warrants and everyone rolls over like lap dogs. There are a great many parallels to the rise of Hitler and the restrictions on Liberty here. People don't see them because they don't want to.

Maybe I'm fresh out of rational arguments as to me there is nothing more irrational then a nation founded upon Freedom & Liberty whose citizens would sit back and allow the Federal Government to confiscate your wages without an armed insurrection. That is far more irrational than a comparison to Nazi Germany. BTW there is nothing trivial about even one person having their Liberty interrupted by a tyrannical agency with the power to destroy lives as the IRS does.

Look at a tax booklet sometime and you'll note that compliance is said to be voluntary. Try not "Voluntarily complying" and see which Federal Prison you serve time at.

As I stated previously the Nazi comparison is ludicrous, trivializes their crimes and says you have no intelligent argument. Turn on your TV and chances are you will see and add or two advertising for legal assistance dealing with the IRS? Did they have ads like that in Nazi Germany? "Gestapo coming to your door and dragging you and your family out of your house in the middle of the night? WE CAN HELP!" Of course not. Not that it would have mattered since the Nazi's controlled the courts. Ever hear of show trials?

So you can try and rationalize it but all I have to do is look up the number of people murdered by the Nazi's and the number of people murdered by the IRS.

 

[SparrowHawk]

As I stated previously the Nazi comparison is ludicrous, trivializes their crimes and says you have no intelligent argument. Turn on your TV and chances are you will see and add or two advertising for legal assistance dealing with the IRS? Did they have ads like that in Nazi Germany? "Gestapo coming to your door and dragging you and your family out of your house in the middle of the night? WE CAN HELP!" Of course not. Not that it would have mattered since the Nazi's controlled the courts. Ever hear of show trials?

So you can try and rationalize it but all I have to do is look up the number of people murdered by the Nazi's and the number of people murdered by the IRS.

No I don't have to look it up! All you've done is what you always do is focus on singular item/issue that you feel you can use to discredit the poster NOT the argument made, which in this case is the thuggery of the IRS. What the ads don't tell you is that when you bring in one of those jack ass IRS attorneys, The IRS reacts in a very negative way and will often initiate enforcement action immediately under the assumption that if you can pay one of those retards you can pay your taxes.

There are ways to beat the IRS and while not easy it's worthwhile. I prevailed in my dealings for about $10,000 they said I owed. It took months and hours of letter writing and research, along with them cleaning out my checking account. however in the end I found a little known piece of the tax code and got every dime back they confiscated, the remaining debt erased and interest on the money they confiscated.

So while the Gestapo comparison may not be spot on if you go back I said that the IRS was "The Closest agency we have to the Gestapo". My statement is accurate. Both agency's ran/run amok over peoples lives, one with a gun the other with a pen and both with precious little oversight.

 

[777 fixer]

I know what you said. If what the IRS thugs did to her isn't morally equivalent to the Gestapo then I don't know what would be. You comapred a case to the mass murder commited by the Nazi's. Nice.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I know what you said. If what the IRS thugs did to her isn't morally equivalent to the Gestapo then I don't know what would be. You comapred a case to the mass murder commited by the Nazi's. Nice.

Once again ignoring the points made. Right out of the Duck, Dodge and Deflect Liberal/Progressive playbook. Keep going you're proving that the Liberal/Progressive agenda is as Bankrupt morally as the country is fiscally. There is also a pretty good cause & effect case to be made that the Liberal/Progressive agenda is solely responsible for our financial woes.

 

[Ms Tree]

I know exactly what happened in Nazi Germany. Tyranny is tyranny, period whether it be at the barrel of a gun or the point of a pen.

You do not like the IRS. Fine. No big surprise there. When you say the IRS is the same as the Gestapo, it proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you do not have even a remote idea of what Nazi Germany was about. I have been to Terezín and to Buchenwald. With out even knowing you I know for a fact that I know a hell of a lot more about what happened in Nazi Germany than you do. Given your attempt to equate the two it is painfully obvious that you are clueless on this issue.

I understand what you are trying to convey, but when you make such a ludicrous statement, all it does is destroy your credibility.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You do not like the IRS. Fine. No big surprise there. When you say the IRS is the same as the Gestapo, it proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you do not have even a remote idea of what Nazi Germany was about. I have been to Terezín and to Buchenwald. With out even knowing you I know for a fact that I know a hell of a lot more about what happened in Nazi Germany than you do. Given your attempt to equate the two it is painfully obvious that you are clueless on this issue.

I understand what you are trying to convey, but when you make such a ludicrous statement, all it does is destroy your credibility.

So what do you want? A cookie. My uncle was there in 1945 and I've gotten a very good oral history directly from some one who didn't eat for a week because he gave his rations away to the starving. Don't lecture me on this. I feel as I do and I stand by the statement that the IRS is the closest thing we have to the Gestapo, thanks to the ultimate liberal maggot Woodrow Wilson. You want to place blame on why the country is where it is start with him.

 

[Ms Tree]

Ohh woo hoooooo. Your uncle did not eat for a week. BFD. I know you stand by your irrational comment. I expect nothing less.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Ohh woo hoooooo. Your uncle did not eat for a week. BFD. I know you stand by your irrational comment. I expect nothing less.

Please carry on your ultra left tactic and duck dodge and deflect from the real issue which is the tyranny of the Federal Government and the Jack Booted thugs of the IRS. Not to mention BATF at Ruby Ridge and now supporting Mexican Drug lords.

 

[Ms Tree]

Five days and that's what you come up with?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Funny how liberals want to wait for due process when one of their own is caught up in a scandal. Was the same affording to Sarah Palin? Dick Cheny? GWB, (including the various crop of republican contenders) etc?

Funny how everyone that disagrees with you is a liberal.

How many avatars does dapoes have?

 

[7days]

Funny how everyone that disagrees with you is a liberal.

How many avatars does dapoes have?

What are you talking about? Are you denying my statement or just simply deflecting? I merely pointed out the obvious hypocrisy from a statement you weren't a part of. If you want to be a part of it then please refute it.

 

[777 fixer]

So what do you want? A cookie. My uncle was there in 1945 and I've gotten a very good oral history directly from some one who didn't eat for a week because he gave his rations away to the starving. Don't lecture me on this. I feel as I do and I stand by the statement that the IRS is the closest thing we have to the Gestapo, thanks to the ultimate liberal maggot Woodrow Wilson. You want to place blame on why the country is where it is start with him.

When you make these comparrisions you trivialize what he fought for.

 

[SparrowHawk]

When you make these comparrisions you trivialize what he fought for.

I don't think so.

When I stand in line at a TSA checkpoint with the possibility of being molested in the name of security
When I observe first hand the jack booted thuggery of the IRS in Lojeski v IRS
When I see 14 Trillion in debt incurred by the government
When I see the BATF murder citizens because of their religion in Waco

It becomes obvious to me that this no longer the United States that my Uncle ran out onto the beaches of Normandy to preserve. This started with Viet Nam for me and came to a head when Obama got elected. Since his election I've not left the USA as I am embarrassed to admit I'm from the United States and that as a nation we could fall for such an incompetent President. We are the laughing stock of the world.

The government expansion into every aspect of our lives is to me just the same as Hitler's rise to power. This country learned a great deal from Hitler and the TSA is a shining example of his influence as are the enforcement practices of the IRS. It's like Thomas Jefferson said, "When people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is Liberty". We are headed not towards Liberty rather we are sliding down the slippery slope to tyranny, led by a back bench junior senator who masquerades as POTUS.

Are we murdering our citizens in large numbers? Not yet!

Remember the alleged reason for the raid on the Branch Davidians was to execute a search warrant and if you've ever heard the actual 911 call from inside the compound to the Waco Police you will be shocked to know that Koresh and his followers are on tape. The defense first put on part of a tape of the 911 phone call made by Davidian Wayne Martin during the first few minutes of the ATF attack. He frantically reported that ATF agents were shooting at men, women, and children, and pleaded, "Call it off!" Several other desperate 911 calls were placed from Mt. Carmel, but Judge Smith ruled that "90 per cent" of the taped pleas were "irrelevant" and inadmissible.

Even with a judge the feds thought was in their pocket the end result was After only 18 hours of deliberations (including the several hours necessary to study the judge's charge to the jury), following a six-week trial, the jury came back with "not guilty" verdicts for all 11 defendants on the murder and conspiracy to murder charges, convictions of five defendants for voluntary manslaughter, a few convictions for using firearms in the commission of a violent crime (which convictions were dismissed by the judge because those defendants had not been found guilty of any violent crimes) and seven weapons possession convictions.

Russian engineer Ilias Abdonlline told the Express-News reporter in Waco that he had come directly from Moscow just to see the site "Everyone in the world was amazed when this thing happened, but especially when it happened in America," he said. "We have a terrible history with Stalin in Russia, and I have a memory with that. When I saw this on television, I was shocked. How could it happen in the U.S.? The U.S. is a democracy."

These things happened and even with the full weight of the corrupt Federal Government they could not prevail over we the people. It's what separated us from Nazi Germany. Now the distinction is less clear and gets more murky with every Federal Regulation, Every Tax enacted, Every expansion of enforcement power. Could a charismatic leader like Hitler rise to power here?

 

[Ms Tree]

I don't think so.

When I stand in line at a TSA checkpoint with the possibility of being molested in the name of security
When I observe first hand the jack booted thuggery of the IRS in Lojeski v IRS
When I see 14 Trillion in debt incurred by the government
When I see the BATF murder citizens because of their religion in Waco

It becomes obvious to me that this no longer the United States that my Uncle ran out onto the beaches of Normandy to preserve. This started with Viet Nam for me and came to a head when Obama got elected. Since his election I've not left the USA as I am embarrassed to admit I'm from the United States and that as a nation we could fall for such an incompetent President. We are the laughing stock of the world.

The government expansion into every aspect of our lives is to me just the same as Hitler's rise to power. This country learned a great deal from Hitler and the TSA is a shining example of his influence as are the enforcement practices of the IRS. It's like Thomas Jefferson said, "When people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is Liberty". We are headed not towards Liberty rather we are sliding down the slippery slope to tyranny, led by a back bench junior senator who masquerades as POTUS.

Are we murdering our citizens in large numbers? Not yet!

Remember the alleged reason for the raid on the Branch Davidians was to execute a search warrant and if you've ever heard the actual 911 call from inside the compound to the Waco Police you will be shocked to know that Koresh and his followers are on tape. The defense first put on part of a tape of the 911 phone call made by Davidian Wayne Martin during the first few minutes of the ATF attack. He frantically reported that ATF agents were shooting at men, women, and children, and pleaded, "Call it off!" Several other desperate 911 calls were placed from Mt. Carmel, but Judge Smith ruled that "90 per cent" of the taped pleas were "irrelevant" and inadmissible.

Even with a judge the feds thought was in their pocket the end result was After only 18 hours of deliberations (including the several hours necessary to study the judge's charge to the jury), following a six-week trial, the jury came back with "not guilty" verdicts for all 11 defendants on the murder and conspiracy to murder charges, convictions of five defendants for voluntary manslaughter, a few convictions for using firearms in the commission of a violent crime (which convictions were dismissed by the judge because those defendants had not been found guilty of any violent crimes) and seven weapons possession convictions.

Russian engineer Ilias Abdonlline told the Express-News reporter in Waco that he had come directly from Moscow just to see the site "Everyone in the world was amazed when this thing happened, but especially when it happened in America," he said. "We have a terrible history with Stalin in Russia, and I have a memory with that. When I saw this on television, I was shocked. How could it happen in the U.S.? The U.S. is a democracy."

These things happened and even with the full weight of the corrupt Federal Government they could not prevail over we the people. It's what separated us from Nazi Germany. Now the distinction is less clear and gets more murky with every Federal Regulation, Every Tax enacted, Every expansion of enforcement power. Could a charismatic leader like Hitler rise to power here?

-So what would you like to see at airport security?
-Since you were not a party to the case it was not first hand. More like fourth or fifth hand .... may be.
-Most economist say that cutting taxes will do very little to get money into the economy. Most of what I have read indicates that the fed should have pumped more into the economy than they did.
-OR a search warrant was trying to be served to an armed cult placing children at risk and they essentially committed suicide by resisting arrest.

As if Bush was such a gem. He was the laughing stock of all of Europe every time I was there.

Again with the Hitler? Not even worth a comment.

No, not a single person has been murdered by the government. Not one. and there is no indication that this will change.

Yea, call it off as 4 ATF agents were murdered. Seems that the guy on the phone was not speaking for the guys with the guns. Guess he should have known better than to link up with some physcho Seventh Day Adventists cult.

 

[SparrowHawk]

-So what would you like to see at airport security?

I would to see the TSA abolished, right along with large portions of the FAA. Both ATC and gate screening would be privatized making both more efficient. The money saved would be put to use hiring more CIA, NSA, FBI types who are the real soldiers in the war on terror. Not that dumb assed security theater we have now. The TSA in ten full years has yet to thwart a plot with gate inspections. They don't deter. Spend the money where it gets the most effect and leave the civil liberties of US citizens intact.

-Since you were not a party to the case it was not first hand. More like fourth or fifth hand .... may be.

I've followed and studied the case since its inception and I'm sorry slice it any way you like the government essentially murdered men, women and children for the simple reason that they were different. Run the case through a different filter. Suppose the people who lived at Mt Carmel were ALL avowed Atheists then whose side are you on? I know my way around the bible pretty well and these folks were pretty far on the lunatic fringe which I'd add is not illegal

-Most economist say that cutting taxes will do very little to get money into the economy. Most of what I have read indicates that the fed should have pumped more into the economy than they did.

Most economists from the Empty Suit regime maybe but the Austrian school economist not a one. Even Tim Geitner said Keynesian economics has been proven a failure and that's the group of economists you're referring to. Try again.

-OR a search warrant was trying to be served to an armed cult placing children at risk and they essentially committed suicide by resisting arrest.

Ever notice no evidence was presented at trial that any children were believed to be in danger? No physical search warrant was ever produced at trial from Child Protective services or whatever it was called in TX.

As if Bush was such a gem. He was the laughing stock of all of Europe every time I was there.

Never said he was, but most European folks understood where he was coming from. You for some reason seem to think I'm a defender of Bush when the fact is this, If I was suddenly the new Dictator of the United States, George W Bush and Barack H Obama would be captured and executed and I can give over 14 Trillion reasons plus the Patriot Act as to why. The difference between Bush and Obama is Bush sucked less which isn't a ringing endorsement

No, not a single person has been murdered by the government. Not one. and there is no indication that this will change.

2 at Ruby Ridge and 51 at Waco. Granted not the depth and breath of Stalin but murdered none the less.

Yea, call it off as 4 ATF agents were murdered. Seems that the guy on the phone was not speaking for the guys with the guns. Guess he should have known better than to link up with some physcho Seventh Day Adventists cult.

Four ATF thugs got what they deserved invading both a civilian residence and a house of worship. It's called "Castle Doctrine" and it's a fundamental right to be able to defend your home and property. IIRC at trial no one could produce a copy of a warrant or testify as to what it was they were searching for.