Warren (raise my taxes) Buffet

[tech2101]

I would to see the TSA abolished, right along with large portions of the FAA. Both ATC and gate screening would be privatized making both more efficient. The money saved would be put to use hiring more CIA, NSA, FBI types who are the real soldiers in the war on terror. Not that dumb assed security theater we have now. The TSA in ten full years has yet to thwart a plot with gate inspections. They don't deter. Spend the money where it gets the most effect and leave the civil liberties of US citizens intact.


I've followed and studied the case since its inception and I'm sorry slice it any way you like the government essentially murdered men, women and children for the simple reason that they were different. Run the case through a different filter. Suppose the people who lived at Mt Carmel were ALL avowed Atheists then whose side are you on? I know my way around the bible pretty well and these folks were pretty far on the lunatic fringe which I'd add is not illegal

Most economists from the Empty Suit regime maybe but the Austrian school economist not a one. Even Tim Geitner said Keynesian economics has been proven a failure and that's the group of economists you're referring to. Try again.

Ever notice no evidence was presented at trial that any children were believed to be in danger? No physical search warrant was ever produced at trial from Child Protective services or whatever it was called in TX.



Never said he was, but most European folks understood where he was coming from. You for some reason seem to think I'm a defender of Bush when the fact is this, If I was suddenly the new Dictator of the United States, George W Bush and Barack H Obama would be captured and executed and I can give over 14 Trillion reasons plus the Patriot Act as to why. The difference between Bush and Obama is Bush sucked less which isn't a ringing endorsement



2 at Ruby Ridge and 51 at Waco. Granted not the depth and breath of Stalin but murdered none the less.



Four ATF thugs got what they deserved invading both a civilian residence and a house of worship. It's called "Castle Doctrine" and it's a fundamental right to be able to defend your home and property. IIRC at trial no one could produce a copy of a warrant or testify as to what it was they were searching for.

And because of all the above, Warren Buffet wants his taxes raised :blink:

 

[Ms Tree]

I would to see the TSA abolished, right along with large portions of the FAA. Both ATC and gate screening would be privatized making both more efficient. The money saved would be put to use hiring more CIA, NSA, FBI types who are the real soldiers in the war on terror. Not that dumb assed security theater we have now. The TSA in ten full years has yet to thwart a plot with gate inspections. They don't deter. Spend the money where it gets the most effect and leave the civil liberties of US citizens intact.


I've followed and studied the case since its inception and I'm sorry slice it any way you like the government essentially murdered men, women and children for the simple reason that they were different. Run the case through a different filter. Suppose the people who lived at Mt Carmel were ALL avowed Atheists then whose side are you on? I know my way around the bible pretty well and these folks were pretty far on the lunatic fringe which I'd add is not illegal

Most economists from the Empty Suit regime maybe but the Austrian school economist not a one. Even Tim Geitner said Keynesian economics has been proven a failure and that's the group of economists you're referring to. Try again.

Ever notice no evidence was presented at trial that any children were believed to be in danger? No physical search warrant was ever produced at trial from Child Protective services or whatever it was called in TX.



Never said he was, but most European folks understood where he was coming from. You for some reason seem to think I'm a defender of Bush when the fact is this, If I was suddenly the new Dictator of the United States, George W Bush and Barack H Obama would be captured and executed and I can give over 14 Trillion reasons plus the Patriot Act as to why. The difference between Bush and Obama is Bush sucked less which isn't a ringing endorsement



2 at Ruby Ridge and 51 at Waco. Granted not the depth and breath of Stalin but murdered none the less.



Four ATF thugs got what they deserved invading both a civilian residence and a house of worship. It's called "Castle Doctrine" and it's a fundamental right to be able to defend your home and property. IIRC at trial no one could produce a copy of a warrant or testify as to what it was they were searching for.

So you want the FBI and NSA to run airport security? I'm cool with that. Going to have to raise taxes but it wold be worth it.

I do not care what they believed in. They could have been jewish holocaust survivors for all I care. A legal warrant was being served and they resisted.

You have armed physcho's with a god complex. There were at least to cases of suspected child molestation and/or rape but none of the physchos would substantiate the claim and since neither child was pregnant as in the Felts trial, there was not proof. Guess that means it never happened.

Weaver skipped on bail. The fact that he placed his family at risk and subsequently got them killed is on his head. Thirty million plus verses 53. Nah. There are the same.

You are a defender of him by omission. The Europeans I spoke with thought he was bat chit crazy and we the people more so for giving that nut a second term. The only place they thought he was coming from the the funny farm he escaped from. Neither is guilty of treason. Stupid yes but that is not a crime.

House of worship? It was an armed camp with a nut job and his followers placing children in harms way.

Search warrant info.
Waco Search Warrant

DOJ investigation

The Castle Doctrine has absolutely nothing to do with this.

In general, (one) or a variety of conditions must be met before a person can legally use the Castle Doctrine:

An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle.
The intruder must be acting illegally—e.g. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to attack officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties
The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home
The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary
The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force
The occupant(s) of the home may be required to attempt to exit the house or otherwise retreat (this is called the "Duty to retreat" and most self-defense statutes referred to as examples of "Castle Doctrine" expressly state that the homeowner has no such duty)

 

[SparrowHawk]

It was a house of worship and residence, The government invaded it, End of story. everyone knows a district attorney can indict a ham sandwich. It's a bogus trumped up warrant and the not guilty verdicts prove it. Just like at Ruby Ridge. Randy Weaver was acquitted and he and his kids got 3.1 million from the feds which is an admission of guilt in my book.

You're really not very bright are you? All of the terrorist attacks that have been thwarted have been done long before the terrorists ever reached the airport or a plane. TSA is worthless as tits on a bull AND they violate our civil liberties daily.

Adding more FBI etc would be paid for by total elimination of the TSA and certain parts of the FAA and privatization of airport gate inspections and ATC operation. The airport authority and the airlines can pay for gate inspections as before. No need to have a $10 "Security Fee" on every ticket. Let the airlines have the money and see if they can manage incompetent inspections for less than the feds can

 

[Ms Tree]

I believe the case was settled not acquitted. Weaver broke the law and the agents screwed up getting the SOB.

Coming from you that really does not carry a great deal of weight. An yet had there been better security at the airports, 9/11 may have been prevented. I have been through the check points more than I care to admit and do not recall any rights being violated but I guess I am not too bright so how would I know.

The FBI does not work for free and I do not want the likes of Halliburton or Black Water responsible for my security. Have you looked at the financial misconduct of the airlines? Aside from SWA I would not trust a single one of them to run a car wash much less security.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I believe the case was settled not acquitted. Weaver broke the law and the agents screwed up getting the SOB.

In July 1993, a jury acquitted Randy Weaver of weapons and murder charges resulting from his set-up and the subsequent siege of his mountain cabin home by federal agents. Weaver's friend, Kevin Harris, was also found innocent.

Harris, witnessing the agents' killing of Randy Weaver's dog and son during the siege, fired at the agents in self-defense. Harris killed one of the agents. At the trial, the prosecution claimed Harris fired first; the defense produced evidence that the agent had fired seven shots before he was shot himself.

The federal government argued that sniper FBI Lon Horiuchi accidentally killed Weaver's wife Vicki. At the trial, however, Horiuchi testified that he was an accurate shot at 200 yards.

Everything about the federal government's actions in this case is sickening, but possibly the worst was their taunting of the Weaver family after Vicki Weaver's murder: "Good morning, Mrs. Weaver. We had pancakes for breakfast. What did you have?" That was one of the FBI's tactics revealed in court records, reported by Jerry Seper in the Washington Times in September 1993.

A jury found Weaver innocent of all serious charges, convicting him only on the original weapons charge. The jury also found Harris innocent, ruling his shooting of the marshal to be self-defense.

Sources:

Jan. 10, 1995, Wall Street Journal

Coming from you that really does not carry a great deal of weight. An yet had there been better security at the airports, 9/11 may have been prevented. I have been through the check points more than I care to admit and do not recall any rights being violated but I guess I am not too bright so how would I know.

Because you willing give up those rights to the jack booted thugs of the Federal Government. Ever hear of Probable Cause? now the DOJ slicksters did an end around to allow their searches to barely pass Constitutional muster, but every time you pass through a checkpoint a Founding Father turns in his grave. Funny thing is I had a screwdriver in my laptop bag that was long enough to kill someone and it was there for close to 3 years of weekly travel before I got caught. Do the math. roughly 48 weeks per year times 3 years, times at least 2 passes through moronville and not so much as a peep. I feel soooo much safer now. Why was it there? To see how long it took the trained shoe analysts to find it. I'd say 36 months demonstrated my point.

The FBI does not work for free and I do not want the likes of Halliburton or Black Water responsible for my security. Have you looked at the financial misconduct of the airlines? Aside from SWA I would not trust a single one of them to run a car wash much less security.

They don't run the security they pay for the contractor as in the past. How many times do I have to explain that if the TSA budget is ZERO because it ceases to be then that is money that can be redirected to the FBI, CIA and the like. Curtailing our empire would also free up funds to balance the budget and fund the FBI and friends. The FBI and friends are in general very good at ferreting out terrorists and others. That's one reason why I am so angry over Ruby Ridge and Waco as it is my feeling that if the local agents were in command neither would have happened. The blame IMO lays at the feet of Janet Reno on those.

 

[Ms Tree]

I thought I had read that the case was settled since there was no verdict for the $3.1 million. What ever.

There is no probable cause needed at an airport. This is not a traffic stop or a home breach. You are traveling on private air craft and you know a search will take place of everyone going on board. The fact that the TSA were not competent in finding the potential weapon is immaterial to the fact that security searches are justified. You are more than welcome to seek alternate transportation if you find the security checks too burdensome.

I am not sure how one government agency became better than another when all are supposedly bad. Where does the COTUS talk about the FBI? Going to need to collect funds to run the FBI aren't we? When you get all the other stuff can you fine me a unicorn also? I'm still not keen on the contractor stuff. Not interested in Halliburton or Black Water types being in charge of anything more important than toilet cleaning.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I thought I had read that the case was settled since there was no verdict for the $3.1 million. What ever.

There is no probable cause needed at an airport. This is not a traffic stop or a home breach. You are traveling on private air craft and you know a search will take place of everyone going on board. The fact that the TSA were not competent in finding the potential weapon is immaterial to the fact that security searches are justified. You are more than welcome to seek alternate transportation if you find the security checks too burdensome.

I am not sure how one government agency became better than another when all are supposedly bad. Where does the COTUS talk about the FBI? Going to need to collect funds to run the FBI aren't we? When you get all the other stuff can you fine me a unicorn also? I'm still not keen on the contractor stuff. Not interested in Halliburton or Black Water types being in charge of anything more important than toilet cleaning.

It doesn't talk or authorize either the CIA or the FBI that's why Ron Paul wants to get rid of both. I'm a little more practical in that regard. IMO if you roll up the CIA into the Department of State or Defense then their Constitutionality is likely preserved. The FBI is a little trickier due to the The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. The FBI's mandate is established in Title 28 of the United States Code (U.S. Code), Section 533, which authorizes the Attorney General to "appoint officials to detect... crimes against the United States."

Frankly I think Libertarians are on a thin limb with their argument. However there does need to be better safeguards as the FBI abuse of power is well documented. Generally speaking I think they are our best line of defense in the war on terror and they have performed well in that role. The problem with the FBI is their single mindedness to accomplish their mission even if it means trampling the very Constitution they're supposed to uphold. However that same single minded sense of purpose is what makes them successful so it's a very tough call. The sad reality is that philosophy is all great and good, however in the global arena in which we live the FBI becomes a necessary evil.

Truth is that like it or don't we have not had a significant terrorist act since 9/11 on US soil and while they don't brag the FBI should be given their props for this. We as a society have the obligation to ensure this agency doesn't overstep its boundaries as it has done from time to time in the past.

 

[tech2101]

The blame IMO lays at the feet of Janet Reno on those.

Janet Reno was not attorney general during the Ruby Ridge incident.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Janet Reno was not attorney general during the Ruby Ridge incident.

I'm not sure on that but OK. Bottom line is whomever is/was in charge at DOJ bears the blame.

 

[tech2101]

I'm not sure on that but OK. Bottom line is whomever is/was in charge at DOJ bears the blame.

That would be Thornburgh, then William Barr. Both served under George H. W. Bush.

From wiki:

In August 1991, when then-Attorney General Richard Thornburgh resigned to run for the Senate, Barr was named Acting Attorney General.[4] Three days after Barr moved into that position, 121 Cuban inmates, awaiting deportation to Cuba as extremely violent criminals, seized 9 hostages at the Talladega federal prison. Barr directed the F.B.I.'s Hostage Rescue Team to carry out an assault on the prison, which resulted in rescuing all hostages without loss of life.

Your jack booted thugs come in all denominations and political leanings (except your party of the day) it seems.

 

[SparrowHawk]

That would be Thornburgh, then William Barr. Both served under George H. W. Bush.

From wiki:



Your jack booted thugs come in all denominations and political leanings (except your party of the day) it seems.

The Republicans and Democrats are nothing more than two wings on the same bird of prey. As far as I'm concerned your observation that the enemies of Freedom and Liberty do indeed come in all shapes, sizes and political affiliations.

I've been a registered Libertarian since I was allowed to register as one in PA. I voted for Ron Paul in 1988, 2008 and I will vote for him this year and have signed up to volunteer for him. He is and has been the lone voice of Freedom and Liberty as defined by the founding fathers.

I've not changed! Neither has Dr Paul. Just now the people are beginning to see that he has been right more than he has been wrong.

 

[777 fixer]

I don't think so.

When I stand in line at a TSA checkpoint with the possibility of being molested in the name of security
When I observe first hand the jack booted thuggery of the IRS in Lojeski v IRS
When I see 14 Trillion in debt incurred by the government
When I see the BATF murder citizens because of their religion in Waco

And this is proof that the IRS is like the Gestapo? You kind of destroy your own argument in another post when you said
There are ways to beat the IRS and while not easy it's worthwhile. I prevailed in my dealings for about $10,000 they said I owed. It took months and hours of letter writing and research, along with them cleaning out my checking account. however in the end I found a little known piece of the tax code and got every dime back they confiscated, the remaining debt erased and interest on the money they confiscated.


If they were like the Gestapo you would have had no such recourse.

 

[SparrowHawk]

And this is proof that the IRS is like the Gestapo? You kind of destroy your own argument in another post when you said
There are ways to beat the IRS and while not easy it's worthwhile. I prevailed in my dealings for about $10,000 they said I owed. It took months and hours of letter writing and research, along with them cleaning out my checking account. however in the end I found a little known piece of the tax code and got every dime back they confiscated, the remaining debt erased and interest on the money they confiscated.


If they were like the Gestapo you would have had no such recourse.

Read Lojeski v IRS and then comment. I was small potatoes and thus not worth the time and expense. Truth is that if they wanted to "get" me I'd have been gotten and therein lies the similarity

 

[777 fixer]

Read Lojeski v IRS and then comment. I was small potatoes and thus not worth the time and expense. Truth is that if they wanted to "get" me I'd have been gotten and therein lies the similarity

The fact that you had legal recourse, that you don't have to worry about the IRS putting a bullet in your head or sending you to a death camp or tha tyou can voice your opinions without having to worry about eh secret police knocking down your door at 2:00AM should say to everyone that your argument that the IRS is like the Gestapo is ridiculous.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The fact that you had legal recourse, that you don't have to worry about the IRS putting a bullet in your head or sending you to a death camp or tha tyou can voice your opinions without having to worry about eh secret police knocking down your door at 2:00AM should say to everyone that your argument that the IRS is like the Gestapo is ridiculous.

Did you read Lojeski v IRS? Get back to me when you do. I stated that the IRS is the CLOSEST thing we have.