Waterboarding....torture?
- Thread starter delldude
- Start date
Garfield1966
Veteran
I do not understand the reference.
Tug McGroin
Senior
Meet the new boss . . .same as the old boss
Obama Planning to Keep Tribunals for Detainees
“President Obama has decided to keep the military commission system that his predecessor created to try suspected terrorists but will ask Congress to expand the rights of defendants to contest the charges against them, officials briefed on the plan said Thursday.
Mr. Obama will ask for an additional 120-day delay in nine pending hearings before commissions so the administration can revamp the procedures to provide more due process to detainees, the officials said. The new system would limit the use of hearsay, ban evidence gained from cruel treatment, give defendants more latitude to pick their own lawyers and provide more protection if they do not testify.
The decision, to be announced Friday, could set off more criticism from civil libertarian and liberal groups that have increasingly complained that Mr. Obama has not made a sharper break from former President George W. Bush’s terrorism policies.â€
The “expanded rights†Obama provides amounts to little or nothing. For example, Detainees already had the right to private counsel and evidence obtained through cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment was already inadmissible if obtained after the passage of the December 2005 Detainee Treatment Act.
The Obama administration defends this apparent “about face†by noting that Obama supported similar legislation as a senator in 2006. Similar legislation ? You decide.
The Obama Three Step:
First: Denounce your presidential predecessor for a given policy, energizing your party’s base and capitalizing on his abiding unpopularity.
Second: Pretend to have reversed that policy upon taking office with a symbolic act or high-profile statement.
Third: Adopt a version of that same policy, knowing that it’s the only way to govern responsibly or believing that doing otherwise is too difficult.
Repeat as required.
In February the Obama administration ruled that some 600 enemy combatants at Bagram have no constitutional rights.
In March Obama dropped the term “enemy combatant,†but adopted almost the same standard the Bush administration used to detain people without charge.
In April the administration appealed a court ruling that granted some military prisoners in Afghanistan the right to file lawsuits seeking their release.
At this rate Obama’s promise to close Gitmo on 01 January 2010 will expire 31 December 2009.
Obama Planning to Keep Tribunals for Detainees
“President Obama has decided to keep the military commission system that his predecessor created to try suspected terrorists but will ask Congress to expand the rights of defendants to contest the charges against them, officials briefed on the plan said Thursday.
Mr. Obama will ask for an additional 120-day delay in nine pending hearings before commissions so the administration can revamp the procedures to provide more due process to detainees, the officials said. The new system would limit the use of hearsay, ban evidence gained from cruel treatment, give defendants more latitude to pick their own lawyers and provide more protection if they do not testify.
The decision, to be announced Friday, could set off more criticism from civil libertarian and liberal groups that have increasingly complained that Mr. Obama has not made a sharper break from former President George W. Bush’s terrorism policies.â€
The “expanded rights†Obama provides amounts to little or nothing. For example, Detainees already had the right to private counsel and evidence obtained through cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment was already inadmissible if obtained after the passage of the December 2005 Detainee Treatment Act.
The Obama administration defends this apparent “about face†by noting that Obama supported similar legislation as a senator in 2006. Similar legislation ? You decide.
The Obama Three Step:
First: Denounce your presidential predecessor for a given policy, energizing your party’s base and capitalizing on his abiding unpopularity.
Second: Pretend to have reversed that policy upon taking office with a symbolic act or high-profile statement.
Third: Adopt a version of that same policy, knowing that it’s the only way to govern responsibly or believing that doing otherwise is too difficult.
Repeat as required.
In February the Obama administration ruled that some 600 enemy combatants at Bagram have no constitutional rights.
In March Obama dropped the term “enemy combatant,†but adopted almost the same standard the Bush administration used to detain people without charge.
In April the administration appealed a court ruling that granted some military prisoners in Afghanistan the right to file lawsuits seeking their release.
At this rate Obama’s promise to close Gitmo on 01 January 2010 will expire 31 December 2009.
Freedom4all
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I think Schumer said it best (for once)....do what you have to do.
E
EastUS
Guest
(Insert heavy and heartfelt sigh here) In principal...I must completely agree with you here....Dang it! Many functional problems with what I perceive to be shared idealism and even romanticism come back to bite us here though:
1) We'll never be able to round all of these slimy sorts of "people" up, so as to ever have a proper engagement on the field of battle. Witness what's inevitably occurred whenever arab forces take on the likes of even tiny Israel.....much, much less our people. "They", despite any/all shooting in the air/dancing in the streets/loudly mouthing off/etc...are fully aware of the fact that their forces, versus ours/the west's.... quickly become pathetic "jokes" within ANY serious combat arena. To truly "root out the terrorists" would, imo, require the wholesale defeat of entire nations. Don't get me started there..as there's some I'd be completely fine with that notion towards.
2) Aww...forget "2)"..3,4 etc. I guess it just comes down to some very basic questions for us all, as to how do we best handle such "people" as would gleefully enslave or slaughter any/all of us..and certainly seek the destruction of our "civilization"..such as it is 😉 ..without sacrificing our own ideals in the process? A standard government ploy has long been to send selectees for "questioning" to third world buckets..where no one back here sees what's going on. I rather "doubt" that those "selectees" wouldn't much prefer remaining in American custody...
I guess that I really don't have "the answer" here, other than to observe that "Tactical Interrogations" have, indeed, saved many American lives in the field, and I firmly believe, at home as well.
E
EastUS
Guest
That old broad gets about one more facelift she's going to have a goatee
To bad she didn't save her money then maybe medical science could have come up with an integrity transplant.
1) Indeed 😉
2) Ah!...but good Sir!...You're assuming the availability of someone within her circle actually possessing integrity, and thusly, even being a viable donor
dapoes
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She might as well go pick out her headstone now. You openly challenge the CIA (the keeper of the secrets) and your career is over.
dapoes
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No one is insinuating stifling any speech whatsoever. What the inference is that in her position, to call out the CIA is suicide as they keep they have the master key to the Washington skeleton closet. IE: When your in a hole stop digging.
Leon Panetta speaks:
Titled, “Message from the Director: Turning Down the Volume,†Mr. Panetta wrote:
Source
Well done Mr. Panetta. Mr. Panetta is a credible person. Kudos to him for sticking up for his troops.
The CIA has been always been a whipping boy for Congress. The CIA cannot speak about such matters...politicians can.
All of you who want to pile on Pelosi, be careful where you jump. There are plenty of examples from the Republican side.
Enjoy your day in the sun.
Titled, “Message from the Director: Turning Down the Volume,†Mr. Panetta wrote:
Source
Well done Mr. Panetta. Mr. Panetta is a credible person. Kudos to him for sticking up for his troops.
The CIA has been always been a whipping boy for Congress. The CIA cannot speak about such matters...politicians can.
All of you who want to pile on Pelosi, be careful where you jump. There are plenty of examples from the Republican side.
Enjoy your day in the sun.
Doesn't matter in the least...she's the one putting this in the spotlight with her continual flip flops......
Agreed Dude.
Garfield1966
Veteran
I wish for once Congress would do what the USC has tasked them to do. Oversight. I want an inquire by a third party to determine who knew what and when. Then nail the lot of them to a pool of hungry sharks.
I heard a joke once. What is the difference between politicians and rats. There are some things rats won't do.
I hate politicians.
I heard a joke once. What is the difference between politicians and rats. There are some things rats won't do.
I hate politicians.
dapoes
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This whole torture debate is best summed up by the old adage: Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.
To politicize our safety when in the past it we ALWAYS did what we had to do, is the true criminal act. Next time the lefty liberals and the ACLU start yelping, let them go abroad and convince the enemy. That should take care of them once and for all.
To politicize our safety when in the past it we ALWAYS did what we had to do, is the true criminal act. Next time the lefty liberals and the ACLU start yelping, let them go abroad and convince the enemy. That should take care of them once and for all.
