We All Have To Stick Together

[jetmechdelta39]

I have been at delta airlines for 5 years i know that is not long,but i have been around the field awhile and i have never worked with a more dedicated and proffessional group of people as i have in last 5 years. I am just holding on as long as i can and keeping the planes safe i could care less about money.But delta has never asked me to comprimise my morals or realese a plane that wasn't safe.I love the people i work with like family and that is why i go to work everyday.

 

[luv2fly]

Excellent post jetmech. The one thing we need to realize is that most of this is beyond our control. Show up, do our job safely, and try to squeeze as much enjoyment out of it as possible.
As a pilot I greatly appreciate your attitude towards your job and responsibility. I think most of the mechanics reflect your attitude as well.

 

[Vikedog64]

Excellent post jetmech. The one thing we need to realize is that most of this is beyond our control. Show up, do our job safely, and try to squeeze as much enjoyment out of it as possible.
As a pilot I greatly appreciate your attitude towards your job and responsibility. I think most of the mechanics reflect your attitude as well.

[post="291786"][/post]​

As a F/A, most of us feel the same way. We are all nervous which is expected. I hate the thought of filing BK, but at this point I am ready to do whatever is necessary to try to turn this around. Three years has taken a toll on everyone. I am a firm believer that we will make it through this either independent or as a combined carrier. For the record, I came through the Western merger and I am a fan of GG. I believe he is committed to the well being of DAL and its people. We must all look forward, not backwards because we are doomed to fail if we do otherwise.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Let me commend each of your for your commitment to DL. I have long admired Delta because of the high value they have for people - customers and employees. It is that commitment to people that allowed Delta to be at the top of the industry for years.

Sadly, I think the outcome for Delta will not be what any of us wanted. I just got a message that fuel has closed at a record high level yet again. DL's finances were already tattered and a turnaround would have been difficult even under the best circumstances. Grinstein is a smart man but he simply waited too late to act and that was after letting Mullin and his crew destroy Delta for five years straight. Granted, all of Delta's employees benefitted to some extent from Mullins handouts; all of that reckless spending has made DL very unstable and the future very clouded.

The east coast has been very hard for airlines - Piedmont, Eastern, and likely Delta will all pass into history. I fully expect that DL will be acquired while in bankruptcy in a merger that is orchestrated by the creditors that have and will continue to prop up the industry. I'll try to write more on the subject in the next couple days. It is hard to contemplate but I think it is inevitable.

Thank you to each of you for the great job you have done for many years. Delta will always be my favorite airline and people like you are the reason why.

 

[invtrade]

...Sadly, I think the outcome for Delta will not be what any of us wanted. I just got a message that fuel has closed at a record high level yet again. DL's finances were already tattered and a turnaround would have been difficult even under the best circumstances. Grinstein is a smart man but he simply waited too late to act and that was after letting Mullin and his crew destroy Delta for five years straight. Granted, all of Delta's employees benefitted to some extent from Mullins handouts; all of that reckless spending has made DL very unstable and the future very clouded.

The east coast has been very hard for airlines - Piedmont, Eastern, and likely Delta will all pass into history. I fully expect that DL will be acquired while in bankruptcy in a merger that is orchestrated by the creditors that have and will continue to prop up the industry. I'll try to write more on the subject in the next couple days. It is hard to contemplate but I think it is inevitable...

[post="291991"][/post]​

Worldtraveler,

You sounded like you are reading DL obituary. There are still ways to save DL yet ! Ray Neidle of Caylon mentioned four things had to happen to save DL before the end of this year: (1) relief of US$750 mm credit holdback, (2) deferral of US$420 mm debt maturity in Q4, (3) penson funding relief, and (5) further wage concession. Jamie Baker of JPMorgan also believes further 'incremental improvement' could be achievable. Some people may argue that the probabily for all four things to happen is probabily close to zero. However I would counter argue that once (3) and (4) happen, (1) and (2) will come along. Therefore the true probabily of all four things to happen is probabily close to 25%. Granted, things are tough and getting tougher each day with the run-away crude price but the oil hedging is running out for Jetblue and AirTran. They started dropping their pants already in the last quater (it is better for FLYI to go on a little longer without being in BK so that FLYI can go straight into liquidation. FLYI has no reason to exist. FLYI should go back to its original root of being a feeder instead). I don't intend to sound religious. What DL needs the most to go through this tough time are (1) will, management will, and (2) mutual trust, employee's trust of management and other employees. Fortunately DL is not run by people like Glen Tilton, or Bruce Lakefield, both of who are more concerned about their personal pocket size than the future well being of the employees and the company. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the time being.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, it is possible that things can turn around for DL. I'll post more tomorrow but DL has to cut a significant amount of capacity and reallocate even more to much higher revenue potential markets than Florida, esp. since DL carries so much of its Florida passengers through a hub to get there - an extremely unprofitable situation.

I think the reality for DL and for the rest of the industry is that significant amounts of capacity have to get out of the industry in order for prices to go up. Yes, the LCCs are starting to raise fares because they too face a disaster and they are at a point where they can avoid it.

My contention has always been that DL had reasonable chances of surviving and even acquiring other airlines if it stayed out of bankruptcy. If it goes in, and it is almost certain that it will, I believe DL is much more valuable to other airlines than it is as a standalone airline, particularly when you consider the amount of capacity DL will have to cut to turn itself around.

more later.

 

[B.O.B.]

I hope Delta survives too. I have a few friends who are f/a's and they're worried like the rest of you. The problem is that Delta is no longer the "family" airline that it once was back in the 1980's and early 1990's.

The Grinch needs to go! He is too old to be running the 3rd largest airline in the country. Actually he is too old to be running an airline period.

I just wonder if the pilots will give up more concessions. They already gave 32% and Delta wants more. Delta can just shave pay and benefits from everyone else, because they have no union. The cuts have to start at the top and work down. If you want your employees to help in saving the airline, management has to show good faith as well. I'm not talking a little 5-10% from management either. They need to give up a big chunk too!

Good luck to all of you at Delta.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The reason why DL has not discussed further pay cuts before now is because they were not willing to get into another confrontation w/ ALPA. In bankruptcy, it's alot easier to make the cuts. And Delta's executives now are really not paid that well compared with other airline's execs.

Grinstein could and should have been alot meaner along time ago; I think Grinstein's biggest mistake is that he waited too long to do what needed to be done. He selected Mullin who was the wrong choice but Grinstein waited years and billions of dollars to pull Mullin. Grinstein didn't like Song but Delta was allowed to start it; I don't think there is any convincing evidence at all that Song has done anywhere close to what it should have done given the investment. The best Grinstein has said about Song is that it has allowed Delta to maintain market share; that is a pretty low standard for success.

Delta will have to either come up with lots of cash very quickly; it is possible investors would provide funding in return for a significant ownerhship position in DL but I doubt it. Absent that, DL will file bankruptcy within weeks. It will become apparent shortly after a BK filing what DL is thinking about its future. Remember, though, that a company has alot less control of its destiny when it is in bankruptcy.

 

[luv2fly]

IMO, DL will declare shortly after Labor Day. It will quickly park the remaining 737-200's, and all of the 767-200's. In addition I believe it will implement a 10-15% reduction in compensation. It could be straight pay or additional reductions in benefits. Additional layoffs will probably be necessitated as well.
The defined benefit plan will most likely disappear, however, with pending legislation, it may not be a given that the judge would allow it. Time will tell.
Hoping for the best and planning for the worst. Seems to be the airline way of life as of late.

 

[mistified]

Here is an interesting twist I have read on another site.
Someone predicted that because of American's relative strength and not being compelled to file BK anytime soon, that it will actually be at a disadvantage by not filing BK by Oct 17th.
This theory then goes on to say that when American is ready to file it will have to under the more stringent rules.
I guess in short it is basically saying that "the late one to the BK party gets screwed."
Don't know if I buy all this but it is interesting.

On the related topic. I do not agree with WT that DAL is going to go away.
They are way to big a powerhouse. Just my opinion.

ps where the hell is spell check?? sorry!


mistified

 

[aafsc]

I agree with World Traveler's assesment of the situation. Even though I work/worked for DAL's main competitors, AA/EA, I have always though very highly of DL. I flew them a couple of times and the service was excellent. Delta used to have very strict standards for their employees. For the ramp it was; shirts tucked in and shined shoes. I was told that there would be an "appearance inspection" before the shift. Now it seems that has changed. I had to deliver some bags to DL and I saw what to me looked like a gang banger because he was walking across the ramp with his pants half way down and his underwear was showing. This never would have happened a few years ago. I have noticed quite a bit of turnover on the ramp at DL. DL used to promote from within. That changed with Mullin and that is when I started to notice Dl's decline. Of course, all the problems that the industry is now facing is making them all decline.

Asset wise, DL is one the weakest. Their SLC and CVG hubs are second tier. The shuttle, while a good asset, is not as valuable as it once was. The JFK hub (which they got from PA along with the shuttle) is a good asset but lacks the crown jewel of LHR. They also cut many routes to Europe from JFK when they first got it. Also, the facilities there are not up to par when compared to AA's new terminal. They really did not develop JFK. ATL is their "crown jewel". But in ATL they face AirTran and the East coast has always been the most brutal place for airlines (US, EA, now DL). In my opinion, these are some of the reasons why DL is in the predicament it is in.

Good luck to the people of DL.

 

[Beer Guzzler]

As a F/A, most of us feel the same way. We are all nervous which is expected. I hate the thought of filing BK, but at this point I am ready to do whatever is necessary to try to turn this around. Three years has taken a toll on everyone. I am a firm believer that we will make it through this either independent or as a combined carrier. For the record, I came through the Western merger and I am a fan of GG. I believe he is committed to the well being of DAL and its people. We must all look forward, not backwards because we are doomed to fail if we do otherwise.

[post="291852"][/post]​

This is an excellent post. I too work with DL in Mtc Control and have for the last 10 years.. I talk to DL employees all over the world everyday & for the most part everybody is ready to do what has to be done.

Vikedog, I agree 100%, the last 3 years have worn people down, I think everybody would be happier if management would 'TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON and JUST DO IT'!

 

[WorldTraveler]

mistified,
let's clear up any notions that I think DL will "go away". It is possible that DL could be acquired by another airline at some point and there is a case to be said that DL probably has to do more slimming down in order to become profitable. However, DL still is the third largest airline in the US and controls about $15 billion of revenue annually. That is way more than any LCC - in fact probably more than all of the LCCs put together.
Before any of us jump to any conclusions (me included), we need to see DL's next step. If they file chapter 11 as most people expect, how quickly they lay out a plan and what is in the plan will say boatloads about DL's future.

 

[SVQLBA]

mistified,
let's clear up any notions that I think DL will "go away". It is possible that DL could be acquired by another airline at some point and there is a case to be said that DL probably has to do more slimming down in order to become profitable. However, DL still is the third largest airline in the US and controls about $15 billion of revenue annually. That is way more than any LCC - in fact probably more than all of the LCCs put together.
Before any of us jump to any conclusions (me included), we need to see DL's next step. If they file chapter 11 as most people expect, how quickly they lay out a plan and what is in the plan will say boatloads about DL's future.

[post="294675"][/post]​

Hold on -- DL generates $15Bn of revenue, but does not "control" it. Control implies some measure of protection from competitive forces (e.g., disproportionate share of O&D, regulatory restrictions such as LHR slots etc.) DL gets weak unit revenues because most of that $15 Bn is connecting flows (to FL, to Europe) where pax have many equally good choices and so any potential profit gets competed away.